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China's Brue Ocean naval developments

Started by CountDeMoney, March 21, 2011, 06:18:30 AM

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CountDeMoney

QuoteThe 'blue national soil' of China's navy
By George F. Will, Friday, March 18, 8:02 PM

NEWPORT, R.I.

When some Chinese naval officers crossed the Pacific to visit the Naval War College here on an Atlantic-lapped island, they gazed reverently at a desk used by Capt. Alfred Thayer Mahan (1840-1914). This compliment to America's preeminent naval strategist has scholars here wondering whether Mahan's Chinese readers are taking from him lessons similar to those Theodore Roosevelt derived.

How could they not? Mahan did not make TR bellicose; nature did that, immoderately. But Mahan supplied a theory for Roosevelt's metabolic urge to throw around his nation's rapidly growing weight.

Mahan and Roosevelt met in 1887, when Mahan was president of the college and the future president — an amateur naval historian and general know-it-all — was a guest lecturer in his late 20s. From Mahan's 1890 book, "The Influence of Sea Power Upon History, 1660-1783," Roosevelt learned that a powerful navy is indispensable to a nation with great commercial interests and an interest in geopolitical greatness.

China certainly has the former. Does it have the latter?

China may not forever be a "Blanche DuBois nation," akin to the woman in "A Streetcar Named Desire" who said, "I have always depended on the kindness of strangers." Today, Americans are the strangers. Their Navy — "today's naval hegemon," in Chinese parlance — is the constabulary that patrols what Mahan called "the great common" — the ocean highways of the trade on which China's growth, and hence its stability and geopolitical weight, depends.

America's cheerful assumption has been that although its ships are not as numerous as they recently were — 286 now, down from 594 in 1987 — there actually is a 1,000-ship Navy. That comforting figure aggregates all the navies of nations that have no agendas beyond keeping the great common orderly.

China is deploying new submarines at an impressive rate — three a year. They are suited to pushing back U.S. power projection in the Western Pacific. China's much-discussed ballistic and cruise missiles also seem designed to keep U.S. surface forces far from China's soil. And China seems increasingly inclined to define the oceans off its shores as extensions of the shores — territory to be owned and controlled like "blue national soil." This concept is incompatible with the idea of the oceans as a "common."

This includes the "near seas" — the Yellow, South China and East China seas. But such "far seas" as the Indian Ocean also are crucial to China's global commercial reach as a hyperactive importer and exporter. Disciples of Mahan want a national capacity to protect their nation's interests there.

In "Red Star Over the Pacific: China's Rise and the Challenge to U.S. Maritime Strategy," Toshi Yoshihara and James R. Holmes, both on the War College faculty, remind readers that Mahan defined "command of the sea" as "overbearing power on the sea." And that, he said, means power "which drives the enemy's flag from it, or allows it to appear only as a fugitive; and which, by controlling the great common, closes the highways by which commerce moves to and fro from the enemy's shores."

When Mao reigned, say Yoshihara and Holmes, Mahan was "reviled" as "an apostle of imperialism and colonialism." Now, they report, at major international conferences Chinese analysts have cited Mahan's bellicose definition of command of the sea to emphasize "the value of sea power for China."

Even with its reduced numbers, the U.S. Navy may have such command — as long as no rival power covets command. But Mahan's writings, say Yoshihara and Holmes, encourage "zero-sum thinking." In the Social Darwinian spirit of his day, Mahan wrote: "Growth is a property of healthful life" and implies a "right to insure by just means whatsoever contributes to national progress, and correlatively to combat injurious action taken by an outside agency, if the latter overpass its own lawful sphere." Concerning China's thinking about lawful spheres, see above: "blue national soil."

Extraordinarily dependent on sea lanes because of what one Chinese intellectual calls its "outward-leaning economy," and now largely free from land threats, China has the opportunity and incentive to project power beyond the Asian continent. In Mahan, it has an excuse.

In his Navy career, Mahan seemed to heed Gilbert and Sullivan's advice in the 1878 operetta "H.M.S. Pinafore": "Stick close to your desks and never go to sea/ And you all may be rulers of the Queen's Navee!" Ships Mahan commanded tended to collide with ships and other things. Ashore, however, he was a force to be reckoned with. It seems he still may be.

Caliga

0 Ed Anger Disapproval Points

Ed Anger

At first, I thought Timmay did this thread. Then I got the joke.  :blush:
Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

Caliga

0 Ed Anger Disapproval Points

Caliga

Hmmm.... :hmm:

Ro ho, ro ho, a pilate's rife for me? :)
0 Ed Anger Disapproval Points

Martinus

Should have gone for "Ooooooooooooooooh, ching chong ding dong." It's all the rage among racists on the internets these days.  :P

Jacob

Quote from: Caliga on March 21, 2011, 07:16:26 AM
Hmmm.... :hmm:

Ro ho, ro ho, a pilate's rife for me? :)

The Chinese threat is obviously not serious yet. Once it is, people like you will be able to tell the difference between a stereotypically-horrible Japanese accent and a stereotypically bad Chinese one.

Caliga

I don't feel threatened by the Chinese. :hug:
0 Ed Anger Disapproval Points

Slargos

Quote from: Jacob on March 21, 2011, 03:29:45 PM
Quote from: Caliga on March 21, 2011, 07:16:26 AM
Hmmm.... :hmm:

Ro ho, ro ho, a pilate's rife for me? :)

The Chinese threat is obviously not serious yet. Once it is, people like you will be able to tell the difference between a stereotypically-horrible Japanese accent and a stereotypically bad Chinese one.

Just because you married a slant-eye doesn't mean you have to passive-aggressively defend all gooks at all times, ya race traitor.  :P

Lettow77

 China lacks the mentality to be an aggressive, expanding imperialist power that contends with the west for struggle of the world. They grow and expand now, but it is only in an economic sense. They are just not martial people.

If it ever is needful, they can be crushed.
It can't be helped...We'll have to use 'that'

Caliga

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Lettow77

 Doesn't count! Limited war on their own border. Anyone can send the conscripts forward. The U.S Marines there on the other hand demonstrated just what a martial people are capable of :3
It can't be helped...We'll have to use 'that'

Ed Anger

Professor Stonewall Jackoff (PHD in Squee) wrote the book A Confederate in Chinaman land.
Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

Razgovory

If the Chinese are so impressed with Mahan, why are they building so many Subs?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

CountDeMoney

Quote from: Caliga on March 21, 2011, 04:39:28 PM
I don't feel threatened by the Chinese. :hug:

You should.  They're threatened by you.