Hungarian Politics

[Admiral Yi]

Very much what Valmy said.

[Martinus]

In addition you can simply refuse, like the Argentines did.

Of course.  You only have to do what international finance wants if you want theirto have any money.

FYPFY 

[Tamas]

Final fiscal numbers for 2011 are at hand.

We were to keep to a 3% budget deficit. We did.

Thanks to the pensionnationalization. Because without that money (which is mostly spent already) we had a 6.5% deficit.

And so the big question: what the fuck will we do this year? What else to rob? Besides bank accounts? What?!

[Ed Anger]

And so the big question: what the fuck will we do this year? What else to rob? Besides bank accounts? What?!

Oh, I could think of ways to raise that revenue.

[Tamas]

This struck me as very interesting:
http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/from-here-to-eternity-hungarian-style/

Two things in particular intrigue me. 
One is the link between deficits and the end of consumption booms.  I'd like to read more on that at some point, he says there's no theory for it though.
The second is the demographic situation which I'd never considered before.  It's not good in Hungary, or any of the Euro-periphery (I think Spain's an exception).  I can't imagine what's going to happen in a country like Greece with near 50% youth unemployment, and an aging, shriking population.  For that matter the demographics aren't very good in the Euro-core (with the exception of France) and even success stories like Poland.

Very interesting article.
I am subscribing to his deficit idea quite easily (regarding end of consumption booms) because it does echo of what happened here, and  I think the whole phenomenom is just coded into the present economic and political enviroment, which can only be avoided by responsible leaders (something we lack badly).

Also, -with dread- I tend to agree with his long term analysis and conclusion.

[Martinus]

Final fiscal numbers for 2011 are at hand.

We were to keep to a 3% budget deficit. We did.

Thanks to the pensionnationalization. Because without that money (which is mostly spent already) we had a 6.5% deficit.

And so the big question: what the fuck will we do this year? What else to rob? Besides bank accounts? What?!

Nationalize the world-famous porn industry?

[Admiral Yi]

In addition you can simply refuse, like the Argentines did.

Of course.  You only have to do what international finance wants if you want theirto have any money.

FYPFY 

Nonsense.

[Martinus]

It's not possible to run a modern country without borrowing.

[Admiral Yi]

It's not possible to run a modern country without borrowing.

You're moving the target.  There are plenty of countries that have money without borrowing.

Before you responded you realized that (this is why they pay you the big stacks of zlotys), which is why you changed it to "modern" countries.  But even "modern" countries have experienced times when they were not running deficits.

[Tamas]

It's not possible to run a modern country without borrowing.

without borrowing for running costs like welfare and pensions? No modern state will survive, then

[Valmy]

It's not possible to run a modern country without borrowing.

Then modernity is a recipe for failure.

[Valmy]

The second is the demographic situation which I'd never considered before.

The demographic one is a puzzler.  The Euros had been hearing for decades their societies were going to melt down if they did not have more kids to support their systems but they do not seem to have been particularly moved to action by that fact.

Of course the fact the young people who are around are shut out of the work force doesn't help.  How can it be so that in countries with low birth rates and low retirement ages that there are no jobs for young people?  When people retire do jobs just cease to exist with no replacement needed?

[Tamas]

The second is the demographic situation which I'd never considered before.

The demographic one is a puzzler.  The Euros had been hearing for decades their societies were going to melt down if they did not have more kids to support their systems but they do not seem to have been particularly moved to action by that fact.

The poorest strata (called gypsies) did heed the call though and are breeding like rabbits.

[Valmy]

The poorest strata (called gypsies) did heed the call though and are breeding like rabbits.

They are?  Then what is the birth rate for ethnic Hungarians then?  1 kid for every 8 women?

[Martinus]

The second is the demographic situation which I'd never considered before.

The demographic one is a puzzler.  The Euros had been hearing for decades their societies were going to melt down if they did not have more kids to support their systems but they do not seem to have been particularly moved to action by that fact.

Why the fuck would it be a puzzler? Excepting truly insane people, I don't think anyone takes a decision to have kids or not based on "the looming fall of the white man civilization". 

Besides, people are having enough kids. Europe is overcrowded. The problem is that people live longer so the old retirement models do not really work anymore. The solution is not for people to breed more. 

Again, you are usually a smart, reasonable guy, Valmy, but sometimes you say stupid shit like a Tim.