NHL Hockey thread

[Valmy]

Shanahaan's crackdown on dangerous hits.  Implemented a concussion on protocols, though its questioned how well it is followed.  Players like Pronger continued to play for several games after receiving a concussion.

The team doctors should not be making those decisions for just that reason.  Neither the player or the club wants the player to sit down for a few games.  Maybe there should be league doctors, who are trained in brain issues and concussions in particular, who should be looking over the players and making those calls at each game?

[HVC]

Ban fighting.

How many concussions actually arrive from fights? and whats the percentage for over all concussions?

I agree with better helmet designs, but i think they should go back to softer shoulder pads.

Go back and read the NYTimes feature on Derek Boogard.   A hell of a lot of hockey enforcers are displaying significant difficulties in retirement, and Boogard's brain should substantial damage when analyzed.

wasn't boogard also a heavy drug user? not the best sample.

[Barrister]

Ban fighting.

How many concussions actually arrive from fights? and whats the percentage for over all concussions?

I agree with better helmet designs, but i think they should go back to softer shoulder pads.

Go back and read the NYTimes feature on Derek Boogard.   A hell of a lot of hockey enforcers are displaying significant difficulties in retirement, and Boogard's brain should substantial damage when analyzed.

wasn't boogard also a heavy drug user? not the best sample.

His brain suffered from chronic traumatic encephalopathy, which is linked to concussions.

It's quite possible his drug use was linked to the CTE as well, because confusion, depression, and impusivity and linked to CTE.

You're right that you can not draw any 100% firm conclusions based on just one individual, they've analyzed a lot more than just one individual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_traumatic_encephalopathy

[Neil]

Go back and read the NYTimes feature on Derek Boogard.   A hell of a lot of hockey enforcers are displaying significant difficulties in retirement, and Boogard's brain should substantial damage when analyzed.

I'm pretty sure that Boogard did other things than fight.  He played on goon lines, and he would have taken and given out a lot of head hits, even outside of fights and scrums.  Your mistake is to single out fighting as if it was the only thing that enforcers did.  When they are on the ice, they are hitting and being hit a great deal.

[Barrister]

Go back and read the NYTimes feature on Derek Boogard.   A hell of a lot of hockey enforcers are displaying significant difficulties in retirement, and Boogard's brain should substantial damage when analyzed.

I'm pretty sure that Boogard did other things than fight.  He played on goon lines, and he would have taken and given out a lot of head hits, even outside of fights and scrums.  Your mistake is to single out fighting as if it was the only thing that enforcers did.  When they are on the ice, they are hitting and being hit a great deal.

So you think it's merely co-incidence that most of the diagnosed CTE cases in hockey were in former enforcers?

I know people like fighting in hockey.  It's popular.  But the evidence is stacking up that its extremely dangerous to those involved.

[Neil]

So you think it's merely co-incidence that most of the diagnosed CTE cases in hockey were in former enforcers?

Nope.  Enforcing is more than fighting.  I just think that nobody has presented me with any evidence whatsoever that fighting is worse than all the headshots and viscious checks those guys soak up.  Clean it all up.

[Valmy]

I know people like fighting in hockey.  It's popular.  But the evidence is stacking up that its extremely dangerous to those involved.

It seems to me that the high speed collisions would be more dangerous than a few guys throwing punches.  But granted I have not been in too many Hockey fights.

[viper37]

Ban fighting.

I wouldn't mind that.  Fighting, with the no instigator rule means we sacrifice the fighters to protect the other players.  I'm sure there's a way to protect anyone.

But I don't think hockey fans in Canada, and even in the US where apparently they shun the violence of hockey, will let it happen.*
But I support such a measure.  I want to see fine hockey plays, I want to see a guy skating full speed and leaving behind two defencemen to trick the goalie and score.  If I wanted to see a boxing match, I'd go to the Bell Center when there's no ice.

On your list of players, we should add the name of Gilles Lupien, even though not deceased, he recently said in a tv show about violence in hockey that he was suffering from memory loss, tremors and other problems associated with too many concussion.  And there are possibly others like that.  I remember Kordick, ex-Nordiques.  Tough guy, built on steroids.  Probably suffered a brain injury too much, it's hard to tell with these guys what's the cause: the concussion, the drugs, the lifestyle.

Anyway, when the police came to arrest him, there was 6 guys on him and he was carrying them, until he stopped, cold dead.  They never could revive him.

So many of these guys... never the greatest players, don't often play long in the same place, so we don't really hear about them when they have problems.

One might be tempted to say better them than the kind of players like Crosby, Malkin, Brière, Giroux... but it's still a sacrifice that doesn't have to be made.  It's just a sport.


*Actually, thinking about it, I see a change in hockey fans around me.  Where last year many of them would still support the fights, almost all of them now agree it has to stop.  My best friend used to laugh at me 'cause I didn't like the fights and prefered olympic hockey for that, and he's the one now telling me there should be no fights...  I think it's changing.

[viper37]

Put the red line in the middle of the ice back in again so you blow a whistle on a two-line pass.  That might slow players down coming into the offensive zone and eliminate some of the open ice hits.  Those don't seem to be the real problem though... lately it's fluke plays and heads being smashed into boards from behind.  Maybe those little STOP signs kids in junior have on the backs of their helmets should be brought into the NHL.

back the 90s hockey.  I'm not sure it's better for the game though.

[Barrister]

On your list of players, we should add the name of Gilles Lupien, even though not deceased, he recently said in a tv show about violence in hockey that he was suffering from memory loss, tremors and other problems associated with too many concussion.  And there are possibly others like that.  I remember Kordick, ex-Nordiques.  Tough guy, build on steroids.  Probably suffered a brain injury too much, it's hard to tell with these guys what's the cause: the concussion, the drugs, the lifestyle.

The thing with CTE is that it could certainly be a big contributor to everything else as well - it causes personality changes, impulsivity, certainly pain and headaches - all things that may encourage someone to take drugs.

[viper37]

Here's a good text from Bob Hartley.  I'll provide a short summary for BB:
http://lejournaldemontreal.canoe.ca/journaldemontreal/chroniques/bobhartley/archives/2011/12/20111217-015523.html
- remove fights, he's argued for that before.
- authorize some light hooking/holding, maybe for just a second or two, just to slow down the player a little bit.
- let the goalie play the puck a little farther, as it used to be.
- European hockey rules and ring size don't change much on concussion.  20% of the league players in wich Hartley is coaching are injured this season (50 players) and about 10 are out due to concussion, 2 on his own team.  The problem is beggining to be taken seriously over there too.

[Josephus]

The CBC has nothing to do with hockey.

Right.  Let's shut down the CBC and fire Don Cherry.  We'll see how that goes with hockey fans accross Canada

The NHL will endure, CBC or no.

It will now. For sure. But it wouldn't have before. (is this a haiku?)

[Josephus]

I'd love them to take out fighting from hockey...just to see Don Cherry's reaction.

[Zoupa]

It's important for the habs coach to be a francophone not only because of the business angle but also as a sign of respect towards the majority of the fanbase. I'd have no problem with a coach taking intensive french courses to get him at a functioning level within a year let's say though.

[Barrister]

It's important for the habs coach to be a francophone not only because of the business angle but also as a sign of respect towards the majority of the fanbase. I'd have no problem with a coach taking intensive french courses to get him at a functioning level within a year let's say though.

On the TSN Jets telecast, they interview the Free Press columnist during the 2nd intermission.  He commented the problem was entirely with management.  They should have said:

1. Cunneyworth is our interim coach
2. There isn't enough time mid-season for him to learn French
3. If he is our full time coach, you bet he will get intensive French lessons

Sounds like a reasonable position to me.