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TV/Movies Megathread

Started by Eddie Teach, March 06, 2011, 09:29:27 AM

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The Brain

Women want me. Men want to be with me.

garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Sheilbh

So I'm entirely open to race blind casting and - as I've mentioned before - I think it is essential in the UK because we have a pretty strong period drama-industrial complex. I think it's an issue for the industry if there's basically an entire huge chunk of their productions that non-white talent cannot get involved with - and I think it limits the roles for those actors.

I've mentioned before that Thandie Newton, Idris Elba, Riz Ahmed and others have all commented on the lack of interesting roles for minority actors in the UK compared to the US and I think part of that is because they're just ruled out of the 20 period dramas under production at any single time. It should be a huge issue for TV/films that some of the most talented actors in the UK are leaving work here because of the lack of good roles.

I think the lack of controversy around this one is because I think it is far enough in the past that in most people's minds it's basically fantasy. Tudors + ruffs etc = Shakespeare so is treated the same (and it is standard to see neutral casting of all Shakespeare plays, except for Othello). I think there'd be far more controversy around, say, a black Mr Darcy because that era is seen as more historical even when it's fiction I think - but even this is shifting (I feel like especially with Dickens - the recent Great Expectations film is superb at this, though an issue for Tyr on families).

The other thing is Anne Boleyn is not some big national figure - I imagine there'd have been more controversy with, say, a non-white Queen Elizabeth.
Let's bomb Russia!

Valmy

#49068
How I feel about color-blind casting is very contextual. If we are going to do something representational of the historical events, like the Musical Hamilton or whatever, then go ahead. If we are supposed to suspend our disbelief and pretend we are seeing the actual events re-enacted then looking like the actual people becomes important.

But this is the UK, which had a gargantuan globe spawning empire for the previous 300 years. Surely there are lots of ways to put non-white characters into period dramas. Granted it is harder for the Tudor era but even there there are a few actual non-white people in England and we even know some of their names. Maybe just make them a bit more important than we strictly speaking have evidence to support, but those British period dramas do shit like that all the time anyway.

I am definitely ready for the Bollywood-style Henry VIII movie.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

grumbler

Quote from: The Brain on August 20, 2021, 10:19:25 AM
Black Genghis!

Genghis the Black sounds like the name of a dragon that sacked some Dwarf city.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Valmy

Quote from: The Brain on August 20, 2021, 10:19:25 AM
Black Genghis!

He could team up with White Genghis and show how the black and white man can work together to conquer Asia. It would be kind of inspiring.



Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

The Brain

Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Jacob


grumbler

Quote from: Jacob on August 20, 2021, 11:16:20 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 20, 2021, 10:57:25 AM
Ennui and irony.

... live together in perfect harmony.

Side by side in my mounted Golden Horde, oh Lord, why don't we?
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Sheilbh

Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2021, 10:45:16 AM
How I feel about color-blind casting is very contextual. If we are going to do something representational of the historical events, like the Musical Hamilton or whatever, then go ahead. If we are supposed to suspend our disbelief and pretend we are seeing the actual events re-enacted then looking like the actual people becomes important.

But this is the UK, which had a gargantuan globe spawning empire for the previous 300 years. Surely there are lots of ways to put non-white characters into period dramas. Granted it is harder for the Tudor era but even there there are a few actual non-white people in England and we even know some of their names. Maybe just make them a bit more important than we strictly speaking have evidence to support, but those British period dramas do shit like that all the time anyway.
I don't think looking like actual people matters at all ever - unless it's possibly a re-enactment in a documentary that is selling it as looking right.

The thing that I find more annoying but is probably unavoidable is the way you get characters in historical dramas who  are basically 21st century secular liberals because I think that goes to their motivations and what the character is about. I always think the best historical fiction tries to create the alien-ness of the past - I think one thing we particularly struggle with now is how important religion is, for example. It's why I really liked Rome - I think it was quite good at showing the past was a different world.

These are books but I always think of the Shardlake novels which are great fun but you do have these central characters in the middle of Tudor England who don't really care about religion at all - there's even a secret Jew - or sexuality as it's implied one character is celibate but "gay". And the main character is basically sceptical believer in the scientific method and would basically be fine liviing in 2021. They're great fun but it can occasionally be jarring :lol:
Let's bomb Russia!

Valmy

Quote from: Sheilbh on August 20, 2021, 11:58:19 AM
I don't think looking like actual people matters at all ever - unless it's possibly a re-enactment in a documentary that is selling it as looking right.

I think it matters a ton. People want their period dramas to have horses and top hats and cod pieces of big poofy dresses and everything to make it look like you are there...sometimes. Granted that is not always what they are going for.

QuoteThe thing that I find more annoying but is probably unavoidable is the way you get characters in historical dramas who  are basically 21st century secular liberals because I think that goes to their motivations and what the character is about. I always think the best historical fiction tries to create the alien-ness of the past - I think one thing we particularly struggle with now is how important religion is, for example. It's why I really liked Rome - I think it was quite good at showing the past was a different world.

These are books but I always think of the Shardlake novels which are great fun but you do have these central characters in the middle of Tudor England who don't really care about religion at all - there's even a secret Jew - or sexuality as it's implied one character is celibate but "gay". And the main character is basically sceptical believer in the scientific method and would basically be fine liviing in 2021. They're great fun but it can occasionally be jarring :lol:

But yeah this is generally why I dislike period dramas. Am I really supposed to believe that religious people today and in fact much more conservative than actual members of the clergy 500 years ago? :lol:

But not all of them do this poorly.

Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Sheilbh

Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2021, 12:03:05 PM
I think it matters a ton. People want their period dramas to have horses and top hats and cod pieces of big poofy dresses and everything to make it look like you are there...sometimes. Granted that is not always what they are going for.
But I think people want the setting to look like the sort imagined idea we have of that period rather than what we actually know of it - you know they don't often/always paint the statues in Roman dramas, but we know they were painted; same for cathedrals and medieval buildings.

Edit: I think we have a real mental block with accepting how garish and vulgar a lot of the past would appear to us - especially bits of the past that have been idolised for "Traditional beauty" etc.

As for the rest I don't think people watch period dramas expecting reality or historical accuracy - I think they watch for whether it's a fun/enjoyable piece of fiction or not. Whether that's an adaptation of Jane Austen, or a Boleyn film, or the latest Elizabeth/Mary Queen of Scots film, or Gladiator etc - we all know they're historically nonsense :lol:
Let's bomb Russia!

Valmy

#49077
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 20, 2021, 12:10:51 PM
But I think people want the setting to look like the sort imagined idea we have of that period rather than what we actually know of it - you know they don't often/always paint the statues in Roman dramas, but we know they were painted; same for cathedrals and medieval buildings.

As for the rest I don't think people watch period dramas expecting reality or historical accuracy - I think they watch for whether it's a fun/enjoyable piece of fiction or not. Whether that's an adaptation of Jane Austen, or a Boleyn film, or the latest Elizabeth/Mary Queen of Scots film, or Gladiator etc - we all know they're historically nonsense :lol:

Oh absolutely. Though since we have started making a bigger deal about things being painted we have started seeing more painted Roman stuff. I am also happy to see more Roman stuff being in actual Latin and not RP English.

Not sure about the Cathedrals.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Sheilbh

Quote from: Valmy on August 20, 2021, 12:16:56 PM
Not sure about the Cathedrals.
Apparently there's been testing on stones in at least cathedrals in England and Scotland - I think similar to the testing they did on Roman statues - and it seems they were painted polychrome. So this is what researchers in Glasgow think their local cathedral would have looked like - not the bare, moody, gothic stone we have now:
Let's bomb Russia!

Valmy

Yes I am aware that the Cathedral interiors used to be quite colorful, more like Orthodox Churches. What I was saying was I was not aware if period shows were starting to show Cathedrals more historically accurate like that.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."