Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12%)
British - Leave
7 (7%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6%)
ROTW - Remain
34 (34%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Josquius

I expect that high black unemployment rate gets blamed on the black people.
██████
██████
██████

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Josquius on Today at 05:07:03 AMI expect that high black unemployment rate gets blamed on the black people.

Not exclusively.

Josquius

Quote from: Josquius on February 12, 2025, 06:52:04 PMI think where labour are looking with Europe (rightly) is towards a customs union... But not in this government. More everything short of it for now but with it ready to go after the next GE when it should be ever more clear brexit was a disaster.

QuoteI've always felt that is reflected in his politics. He gives the impression of being a "serious" person but his actual ideas basically don't seem to amount to more than planting lots of trees. It's the politics of a well-meaning, benign landowner.
Sure.
But placed next to the other tories who are the less well meaning land owners, recently joined by the similarly dastardly mill owners...

Just listened to the Rest is Politics from yesterday and they basically spelled out my line of thinking here around Europe :lol:
██████
██████
██████

Sheilbh

Again I'm slightly confounded that after 14 years in opposition, and having repeatedly stated (in opposition and then government) that growth is their one priority that Labour are going to take basically a year to actually come up with their industry strategy:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/feb/12/labour-postpones-long-awaited-industrial-strategy
QuoteLabour will not release long-awaited industrial strategy until June
Exclusive: Strategies for life sciences to be published earlier but broader report expected in June

This isn't the only area - there are many other (eg from a security perspective the China audit, for spending departments Treasury reviews) - where government departments are basically just spinning the wheels until x report comes in. They can't announce or do anything significant on huge swathes of policy in advance of these reports, audits, reviews and strategies - but they are also being repeatedly delayed. I think this is a big problem both in terms of government actually doing anything but also the politics (I think part o the reason there's been so much space for the opposition, especially Reform) is that there is a news void where the government should be announcing/doing things.

Also I think it seems very arrogant/complacent to me - at most they've got 5 years to the next election. The last parliament saw a swing from the biggest Tory majority in 30 years to the biggest Labour majority in 25-30 years. People are dissatisfied and volatile. I don't think you can spend your first year (when you've got most political capital to do difficult things) pondering what you're going to do.

It feels like another area where they're failing (and I think this is a European theme to be honest) to meet the urgency of the situation we're in.
Let's bomb Russia!

crazy canuck

There was a boom of economic mobility for Black men in the 60s.

Your charts are not measuring economic mobility.

Valmy

Quote from: garbon on Today at 04:38:44 AMSo when we are talking about how relatively good people had it in the 70s, we need to remember who was benefiting at that time and who was not.

Looks like black people are benefiting about the same as now as you did back in the 70s despite all this massive increases in economic growth and productivity. That doesn't make you stop and think a second?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

garbon

Quote from: crazy canuck on Today at 11:22:25 AMThere was a boom of economic mobility for Black men in the 60s.

Your charts are not measuring economic mobility.

Well of course people who had been effectively excluded from society had more opportunities when in the 60s they were given rights by the government.

I'm not sure economic mobility is the only (or key) way to measure quality of life.

Note this chart below would suggest America has been on a decline in absolute mobility for a long time?



And this link seems to suggest that mobility remains higher for white people than black - specifically black men less mobile compared to white men, while women appear comparable across black and white.

https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/race-and-economic-opportunity-united-states
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

garbon

Quote from: Valmy on Today at 12:05:00 PM
Quote from: garbon on Today at 04:38:44 AMSo when we are talking about how relatively good people had it in the 70s, we need to remember who was benefiting at that time and who was not.

Looks like black people are benefiting about the same as now as you did back in the 70s despite all this massive increases in economic growth and productivity. That doesn't make you stop and think a second?

Stop and think what?
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

crazy canuck

Quote from: garbon on Today at 12:07:22 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on Today at 11:22:25 AMThere was a boom of economic mobility for Black men in the 60s.

Your charts are not measuring economic mobility.

Well of course people who had been effectively excluded from society had more opportunities when in the 60s they were given rights by the government.

I'm not sure economic mobility is the only (or key) way to measure quality of life.

Note this chart below would suggest America has been on a decline in absolute mobility for a long time?



And this link seems to suggest that mobility remains higher for white people than black - specifically black men less mobile compared to white men, while women appear comparable across black and white.

https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/race-and-economic-opportunity-united-states

My claim was not that economic mobility is the only measure. My claim was that the 70s had better economic mobility than now.  Your chart shows that my claim was accurate.

HVC

Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

Valmy

Quote from: garbon on Today at 12:07:53 PMStop and think what?

To understand the point I was trying to make?

In the 1970s we were just a few years after the Civil Rights act. We had just completed 100 years of legal and systemic attacks, and centuries of legal human trafficking and enslavement and denial of rights before that, on the opportunities of black Americans. Logically the situation the should have been far worse for black Americans than it is today. Yet somehow fifty years later despite all the opportunities that should have opened up, the situation is not significantly changed. Because of the fucking point I was making: that there existed a stronger middle class and protections for workers and higher wages then that have been stripped away.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

Quote from: HVC on Today at 12:14:54 PMMan, the 40s must have been awesome

Well...the 30s had to be pretty shit for that graph to work  :P
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."