BELIEVE: Dems propose national biometric ID card

[dps]

Damn, this was a sucky time to run out of popcorn.

[garbon]

A national ID card wouldn't bother me too much.

1) I need my driver's license to vote, drive, fly, buy beer, etc.
2) I also need a birth certificate or passport for any new job.
3) I tend to be no more worried about the federal govt. than the Georgia govt.  I know the latter is totally insane already.

Exactly, so why do I need another? I'm IDed out at this point.

[DGuller]

Driving licenses have never been a problem because it is your choice whether you learn to drive or not.

In practice, everyone needs to have a good piece of ID, or your life would be very difficult in many circumstances.  Those who don't have a driver's license can get a non-driver's ID that looks a lot like the driver's license, and it's a good idea to get it.

[Also reply to Tyr]

I have neither a driving license or a passport, and have never had a problem or been inconvenienced.

Nor did I ever have an age ID card (and they were around, just, when I could have needed one) and I would never have needed one, assuming my memories are accurate. Admittedly, given the paranoia around "under-age" products these days, that may possibly no longer be true...but only possibly.

IIRC, many government agencies need a good ID.  It's possible that you can get around not using your driver's/non-driver's license, but it's a big pain in the ass.  You'll have to haul a combination of certificates, utility bills, social security card, etc.  I imagine the standards only get more strict with time.  My parents, who don't drive, had to get a non-driver's ID just avoid such annoyances.

[merithyn]

Is the opposition against the concept of an ID card in general, or that it would be biometric?

I have no problem with a national ID card, but it feels completely unnecessary. We have enough IDs. Use a passport, instead. Or find a way to restrict state drivers' licenses and IDs to only legal residents.

I do, however, have a problem with the idea that I would have to have a biometric ID card. For years, the government has tried to create a law that everyone must submit a fingerprint or other biometric data for a national database. And for years I have argued against them. There is no need for the government to have biometric data on every citizen of the United States. In addition, there is far too much cost and red-tape involved in creating this type of database. As the article said, it would result in some 3.6 million people heading to the Social Security office to correct mistakes on their information. Ask anyone who's changed their name how much of a PITA getting those kinds of changes made is.

It seems unnecessary and an immense invasion of privacy.

[grumbler]

Is the opposition against the concept of an ID card in general, or that it would be biometric?

I have no problem with a national ID card, but it feels completely unnecessary. We have enough IDs. Use a passport, instead. Or find a way to restrict state drivers' licenses and IDs to only legal residents.

I do, however, have a problem with the idea that I would have to have a biometric ID card. For years, the government has tried to create a law that everyone must submit a fingerprint or other biometric data for a national database. And for years I have argued against them. There is no need for the government to have biometric data on every citizen of the United States. In addition, there is far too much cost and red-tape involved in creating this type of database. As the article said, it would result in some 3.6 million people heading to the Social Security office to correct mistakes on their information. Ask anyone who's changed their name how much of a PITA getting those kinds of changes made is.

It seems unnecessary and an immense invasion of privacy.

So you feel that the problem of illegal immigration and employment isn't severe enough to go through the hassle of a biometics collection and employment verification process?

That's probably not a moronic objection.

I am still pretty neutral on the idea, though.  I would have to see more details about how it would work and how the mistakes that were made in its implementation would be corrected before I took a stand.  I'd also need to be convinced that these cards couldn't feasibly be forged, or the database cracked pretty readily.

[Iormlund]

Anyone who thinks an ID card will put a dent on illegal immigration is out of his mind.

[grumbler]

Anyone who thinks an ID card will put a dent on illegal immigration is out of his mind.

How extraordinary unconvincing.

[merithyn]

I agree with Iormland, to be honest. I know more than my fair share of illegal immigrants, and it really doesn't take much for them to get forged documents. I can't imagine that new biometric cards will be any harder.

As to your question to me, grumbler: No, I do not believe that illegal immigration and employment cause enough distress to the nation as a whole to warrant implementing this type of ID system.

[grumbler]

I agree with Iormland, to be honest. I know more than my fair share of illegal immigrants, and it really doesn't take much for them to get forged documents. I can't imagine that new biometric cards will be any harder.

On what basis do you conclude that the new card will be as easy to forge as a plain paper birth certificate of social security card?

It seems to me absurd to conclude at this point that the ID program will not have the slightest bit of its desired effect because the card will be easy to forge.  The purpose of the biometric data is to make the card harder to forge.

[PDH]

As long as my ID card says "AKA Lucullus" on it, I am good with the idea.

[Ed Anger]

My plan for solving immigration involves machine guns, mines and proscriptions.

[Jaron]

My plan for solving immigration involves machine guns, mines and proscriptions.

How does machine guns, yours, and proscriptions help?

[Eddie Teach]

He kills the immigrants with his machine guns, then takes their stuff.

[Iormlund]

Anyone who thinks an ID card will put a dent on illegal immigration is out of his mind.

How extraordinary unconvincing.

Spain has had ID cards for as long as I can remember and we've received millions of illegal immigrants.

As long as someone is willing to hire an illegal worker for peanuts you will get illegal immigrants. Even if you managed to detain every single one of them, which is doubtful, what are you going to do then?  Where are you going to expel them to? If they have half a neuron they won't have passports and won't reveal their countries of origin. And even if you do expel some, how are you going to keep them there?

[Jaron]

Anyone who thinks an ID card will put a dent on illegal immigration is out of his mind.

How extraordinary unconvincing.

Spain has had ID cards for as long as I can remember and we've received millions of illegal immigrants.

As long as someone is willing to hire an illegal worker for peanuts you will get illegal immigrants. Even if you managed to detain every single one of them, which is doubtful, what are you going to do then?  Where are you going to expel them to? If they have half a neuron they won't have passports and won't reveal their countries of origin. And even if you do expel some, how are you going to keep them there?

I think thats where the machine guns and mines come in.