The Second Coming

[Ed Anger]

The military elan that was instilled in the South preceded the South itself- it is primarily a manifestation of the South's celtic origins

How far deep in the sack 'o stupid does one have to reach to pull out this gem?

The usual confederate apologist's sack is tiny.

[Martinus]

Jesus tapdancing Christ. 

I always thought Neil was secretly gay.

[Neil]

Jesus tapdancing Christ. 

I always thought Neil was secretly gay.

Fags often try to convince themselves that people that they look up to are gay themselves.

I guess I should be honoured.

[Lettow77]

Neil, the Celtic origin of the South was more readily apparent to antebellum northerners than it is to you.

I'd recommend the late Mcwhiney's Cracker Culture, which expounds a great deal on the point and makes the case in far greater detail and with far more statistics than I care to furbish here.

Also, martinus &etc, I feel I must dissabuse you of notions that I am homosexual, although they are justified in my unseemly fondness for prettyboy types. The Missus teases me for it- they just have a romantic dash, is all. Would that I could be one- my face is too round and halfling-esque.

[The Minsky Moment]

Neil, the Celtic origin of the South was more readily apparent to antebellum northerners than it is to you.

Indeed, the tumulus burials and winged axes so prevalent in the deep South should have been a giveaway.

[Jacob]

I didn't know that Mexicans were celtic.

[jimmy olsen]

The military elan that was instilled in the South preceded the South itself- it is primarily a manifestation of the South's celtic origins, and is at much in evidence at Culloden as Gettysburg.

The Celtic influences which defined the South and made disunion inevitable also all but consigned the South to ineffective & reckless tactics.

There is some truth, though, that the Southern vision of civilisation saw the free man as truly a free man, and relied on an underclass to accomplish this, as every society of free men had until that point.

The North had exactly the same degree of celtic origin as the South, as both were settled from Great Britain, in part by criminals.

Also, I don't think you can pin the South's martial spirit on warriors of the past whose connection to the South is tenuous at best.  The South's martial spirit was a natural outgrowth of the American Revolution mixed with slavery, which itself is a mix of English and North American military styles.

I believe Lettow is referring to this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch-Irish_American

[Lettow77]

Amongst other things. The South had a more than fair share settlers from wales and scotland proper, as well as a leavening of huguenots and mainline french.

[Razgovory]

I believe Lettow is referring to this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch-Irish_American

Interesting fact.  They spoke a germanic languages.  Scots and English.  Also they settled heavily in new England and Pensylvania.

[Neil]

I believe Lettow is referring to this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch-Irish_American

It would be a mistake to consider the Scotch-Irish to be Celtic.

Then again, it's very vogue to draw Celtic ancestry of late.  It's probably some sort of neo-pagan thing.  Personally, I don't see it.  Southern culture was all about slavery and racism, and was an artifact of New World planter culture.  Some Celtic hillbillies were washed out by the dominant English reign on the coast.  Celtic culture didn't make a difference in the Americas until the great migrations, and those involved mostly the great industrial cities of the North.

[Sheilbh]

I thought that most recent research suggests that there's no such thing as a Celt

[Barrister]

It would be a mistake to consider the Scotch-Irish to be Celtic.

Indeed.  If that's what Lettow is referring to, he's dead wrong to call Ulster protestants as "celtic".  There's not a hint of celtic (or gaelic) heritage there.

[PDH]

I thought that most recent research suggests that there's no such thing as a Celt

Stop being so anti-post-modern.

[Sheilbh]

I was looking for this thread.  I wrote my last ever undergraduate essay on Yeats and nationalism.  I discussed this poem and came across an interesting quotation from one of his letters in 1934-5 (shortly after his flirtation with fascism), I thought it may be of use next time you teach the class Grumbler:
'I am not callous, every nerve trembles with horror at what is happening in Europe, "the Ceremony of innocence is drowned"'.

And I wanted to establish to Marty that G wasn't enforcing some kooky theory on the kids :p

[grumbler]

I was looking for this thread.  I wrote my last ever undergraduate essay on Yeats and nationalism.  I discussed this poem and came across an interesting quotation from one of his letters in 1934-5 (shortly after his flirtation with fascism), I thought it may be of use next time you teach the class Grumbler:
'I am not callous, every nerve trembles with horror at what is happening in Europe, "the Ceremony of innocence is drowned"'.

That is actually very useful.  Thanks. I will look it up.

And I wanted to establish to Marty that G wasn't enforcing some kooky theory on the kids :p

Good luck with that!