Baseball

[Valmy]

Where is all this Red love coming from anyway Spicey?  I thought you loved that far more glorious franchise over in St Louis.

[derspiess]

I have nothing against the Big Red Machine.  My disdain is reserved solely for that lying piece of shit Pete Rose.  It was bad enough that he bet on baseball, but worse that he has lied about it so many times over so many years.   

So what.  He is the Hit King and did this a lot:


Keep him out as a manager if you want (he was a shitty manager anyway), but there's no reason to keep him out as a player.

[derspiess]

Where is all this Red love coming from anyway Spicey?  I thought you loved that far more glorious franchise over in St Louis.

I do.  Just so happens that I was a Reds fan during the tail end of the Big Red Machine era.  If you had seen Pete Rose slide head-first into 3rd base, Tom Seaver pitch a complete game shut-out, Ken Griffey (Sr.) hit a triple, etc., etc. you'd understand.

[Valmy]

Keep him out as a manager if you want (he was a shitty manager anyway), but there's no reason to keep him out as a player.

Actually I think it sort of helps his legacy as a player to be kept out.  Everybody remembers Shoeless Joe Jackson...but how many people out there can name a Hall of Famer from the 1919 season besides Babe Ruth?

[Valmy]

I do.  Just so happens that I was a Reds fan during the tail end of the Big Red Machine era.  If you had seen Pete Rose slide head-first into 3rd base, Tom Seaver pitch a complete game shut-out, Ken Griffey (Sr.) hit a triple, etc., etc. you'd understand.

I did not see a big league game until 1992.

[derspiess]

I did not see a big league game until 1992.

I started going in 1976, at age 3

[The Minsky Moment]

Keep him out as a manager if you want (he was a shitty manager anyway), but there's no reason to keep him out as a player.

he was a player-manager though.

Also his quest to be the hit king was incredibly selfish and did serious damage to his team because he was absolutely useless as a player the last 5 years of his career.  He was probably the worst regular in baseball in 1986 and took away time from Esasky who at least had a little pop in his bat.  Particularly inexcusable because the Reds were actually in the pennant race still in late July.

[stjaba]

he was a player-manager though.

Also his quest to be the hit king was incredibly selfish and did serious damage to his team because he was absolutely useless as a player the last 5 years of his career.  He was probably the worst regular in baseball in 1986 and took away time from Esasky who at least had a little pop in his bat.  Particularly inexcusable because the Reds were actually in the pennant race still in late July.

That's absolutely true. I had no idea how crappy his numbers were in the latter part of his career until I looked at his baseball-reference.com page.

[dps]

I say no. It should be a lifetime ban. Once he passes away, then you can lift the ban and let him get in the hall. Same for Shoeless Joe Jackson, he's dead, what's the point of keeping him out of the hall?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4358260

MLB commissioner Bud Selig appears to be "seriously considering" reinstatement for Pete Rose nearly 20 years after the hit king was banned from baseball for gambling on the sport, according to a report in the New York Daily News.

Hank Aaron's support for Rose's Hall of Fame inclusion, which he mentioned at this weekend's ceremonies in Cooperstown, N.Y., is a strong indication of Selig's possible action, the Daily News reported.

"I would like to see Pete in," Aaron said. "He belongs there."

Lobbying for the move began five years ago but died when Selig became convinced Rose was not "reconfiguring" his life, the newspaper report said, part of the late commissioner Bart Giamatti's demands on Rose when he was ruled ineligible.

"I think a lot of the guys feel that it's been 20 years now for Pete, and would lean toward leniency and time served," an unnamed Hall of Famer said, according to the Daily News. "If he had admitted it in the first place and apologized way back then, he'd probably be in the Hall by now."

If Rose were to become eligible, it stands to reason he would have to be voted into the Hall of Fame by the 65 living members that make up the Veterans Committee.

Inclusion on the writers' ballot expires after 15 years, though Rose has never appeared on their ballot except by write-in. During his first year of eligibility, Rose received 41 write-in votes.

"I know there are still guys who feel strongly against him," said another Hall of Famer, according to the report. "And I don't know if that would change even if Selig clears him."

Technically, they don't have a "lifetime ban";  they're on the "permanently ineligible list".  Well, Jackson is;  again, technically, Rose isn't on the list, but his agreement with the Commissioner's Office was that he was to be treated as if he were.

[jimmy olsen]

Phillies trade for Cliff Lee!

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090729&content_id=6127048&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[derspiess]

he was a player-manager though.

Yep.  But betting is more problematic if managers are doing it.  Unless you're a player betting against your own team, of course.

Also his quest to be the hit king was incredibly selfish and did serious damage to his team because he was absolutely useless as a player the last 5 years of his career. 

His batting average doesn't bear this out (particularly when you take into account how low BAs were in the 80s), except for his final year. 

He was probably the worst regular in baseball in 1986 and took away time from Esasky who at least had a little pop in his bat.  Particularly inexcusable because the Reds were actually in the pennant race still in late July.

I don't think he played much in the 2nd half of the season.  The Reds have a tradition of tanking in late July anyway   But yeah, he played past his prime.  Lots of guys have.

[The Minsky Moment]

His batting average doesn't bear this out (particularly when you take into account how low BAs were in the 80s), except for his final year.

Batting average is far from being the sole determinant of value. 

[sbr]

Phillies trade for Cliff Lee!

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090729&content_id=6127048&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Great move by the Phillies; Lee is no Halladay but the price was much cheaper.  Phils are the NL team to beat.

[CountDeMoney]

Oakland called up their best prospect, 1B Tommy Everidge, the other day.  First career hit was an RBI double that bounced the wrong way on the top of the Green Monster last night.

This kid's got a monster swing, and at 244 lbs, you do not want to be blocking the plate on him.  I expect Adam Dunn numbers with him in years to come.

[katmai]

the gigantes traded for allstar 2b from Pirates, syt need more info on the guy.