The First Law trilogy - overrated?

[Berkut]

However, that would make all or some of Abercrombie's characters unreliable narrators, which would make things worse, not better.

*******GAME OF THRONES SPOILER!!!***********

There was a debate in a GoT thread about who killed Joffrey.

Someone was arguing that it was Tyrion, based on Tyrion telling Jaime that he had done so.

I remember thinking "Wow, if that was the case, I would really hate Martin, since Tyrion is a PoV character, and in fact the PoV character who we watched joff's death from, and he rather clearly did NOT poison him!" If in fact a POV character can do things during their POV that are not relayed to us...how do we believe anything? That would be, IMO, "cheating" by the author.

Just an aside.

[grumbler]

However, that would make all or some of Abercrombie's characters unreliable narrators, which would make things worse, not better.

*******GAME OF THRONES SPOILER!!!***********

There was a debate in a GoT thread about who killed Joffrey.

Someone was arguing that it was Tyrion, based on Tyrion telling Jaime that he had done so.

I remember thinking "Wow, if that was the case, I would really hate Martin, since Tyrion is a PoV character, and in fact the PoV character who we watched joff's death from, and he rather clearly did NOT poison him!" If in fact a POV character can do things during their POV that are not relayed to us...how do we believe anything? That would be, IMO, "cheating" by the author.

Just an aside.

Agree.  Having an unreliable narrator is okay, so long as we know (or can quickly guess) that this is true.  Having one and hiding it is "cheating."

[crazy canuck]

However, that would make all or some of Abercrombie's characters unreliable narrators, which would make things worse, not better.

*******GAME OF THRONES SPOILER!!!***********

There was a debate in a GoT thread about who killed Joffrey.

Someone was arguing that it was Tyrion, based on Tyrion telling Jaime that he had done so.

I remember thinking "Wow, if that was the case, I would really hate Martin, since Tyrion is a PoV character, and in fact the PoV character who we watched joff's death from, and he rather clearly did NOT poison him!" If in fact a POV character can do things during their POV that are not relayed to us...how do we believe anything? That would be, IMO, "cheating" by the author.

Just an aside.

Not only that but that author goes to some length to explain the motivation for lying to his brother about the killing.  It becomes part of the plot.  If all of that is used to "surprise" us in the end then it is simply an act of deceit rather then crafty writing since the internal motivations are being communicated directly to the reader not the other characters in book.

[Jacob]

I read the trilogy, and at first I quite liked it, but ultimately it left me quite dissatisfied.  The ending in particular was a let-down, both in terms of content and pacing.  Over the course of the trilogy, Abercrombie deliberately makes sure that any redeeming traits in any of his characters are either rendered irrelevant, or more usually, punished. 

As for the plot, it turns on the same hackneyed "clash of cosmic forces with wacky names" conceit that's so common; the one innovation is that he's decided that every character is either ultimately a completely amoral selfish asshole or a victim, or usually some combination of the two.

So yeah... the trilogy left me cold and I'm definitely not buying any more books by Abercrombie.

[Ed Anger]

I also endorsed the books, with the caveat that the characters are generally unlikeable.

The Best Served Cold book( the separate fourth book) suffers from the extreme character dislike. You sorta hope they all just die.

[merithyn]

You guys couldn't have had this conversation last week? I just bought the first book and am about 50 pages into it. I hoped it would get better, but now that hope is kind of leaving me. I'll probably finish this book, but doubt I'll buy the other two. Maybe I'll just read the last chapter of the last book at the library to find out what happens.

[grumbler]

You guys couldn't have had this conversation last week? I just bought the first book and am about 50 pages into it. I hoped it would get better, but now that hope is kind of leaving me. I'll probably finish this book, but doubt I'll buy the other two. Maybe I'll just read the last chapter of the last book at the library to find out what happens.

I'll save some money on book 2:  nothing of import happens.

Kinda like books 5-10 of the WoT books, which is where this started.

[Jacob]

You guys couldn't have had this conversation last week? I just bought the first book and am about 50 pages into it. I hoped it would get better, but now that hope is kind of leaving me. I'll probably finish this book, but doubt I'll buy the other two. Maybe I'll just read the last chapter of the last book at the library to find out what happens.

The beginning is the best part.  The defining feature of the book is that you hope it gets better, and it never delivers on that hope - it just strings you along, then peters out.

[Jacob]

You guys couldn't have had this conversation last week? I just bought the first book and am about 50 pages into it. I hoped it would get better, but now that hope is kind of leaving me. I'll probably finish this book, but doubt I'll buy the other two. Maybe I'll just read the last chapter of the last book at the library to find out what happens.

Spoilers coming...

... in general terms, but a spoiler nonetheless...

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Everyone who seems like they're a decent person either:

1. Is betrayed and dies ignomiously, suddenly and for no real reason but to illustrate 2 below:
2. Turns out to be an evil cock or completely broken.

Everyone who seems like they could potentially be redeemed in spite of their flaws are not, instead they are doomed to be miserable, mostly due to circumstances beyond their control.  That is, if they don't die first.

Essentially, the book is about the clash of evil vs evil, with everyone else getting fucked and broken along the way.  The one exception is two characters who are essentially broken, but who after having been broken get to be sort of comfortable in a miserable world.

[merithyn]

Sounds great! 

[DisturbedPervert]

The Best Served Cold book( the separate fourth book) suffers from the extreme character dislike. You sorta hope they all just die.

That sounds great.  Didn't know there was a fourth, gonna have to get it

[Scipio]

It is totally appropriate that Abercrombie replaced Jordan on the Wheel of Time series.  He is a better writer, but just as directionless and unable to create 3D characters as Jordan was.

Sanderson, not Abercrombie, replaced Jordan.

And I disagree with some of what you say.

[Jacob]

Sounds great! 

Then you'll probably like it

[Korea]

I completely agree with Grumbler!

So, are there any newish fantasy series worth reading out there?!

[grumbler]

Sanderson, not Abercrombie, replaced Jordan.

My bad.  You can see how closely I follow all of this! 

And I disagree with some of what you say.

No new news is good new news.  Your counter-arguments when you disagree with me are disgustingly unshrill and persuasive.