Morality

[FunkMonk]

Is reason more moral than instinct?

For example, let's say I see a man being mugged by a group of thugs. My instinct of course is either to immediately help the man fight off the thugs or to run away and call the police. Rationally, I can think ahead and examine the situation; if I try to fight off the thugs, I could very well get mugged myself, which is definitely not something I want. If I run away and call the police, I still will have done my duty as a good samaritan, but would I have done enough to help the man getting mugged? It may take the police a long time to arrive at the scene, by which time the man would have already been mugged or grievously injured. In essence I would have watched him get beat to a pulp while I stood there waiting for the cops to save the day. Which option would be the "more moral" one to undertake? This is just an example, probably not even a very good one, so I don't mean it to be the main object of discussion. But it can be. 

To put it another way, is morality derived from reason or pure human instinct?

[Sheilbh]

Most everything, even reason, is largely dictated by our individual instinctive (and often emotional) response to a situation or a subject.  We then reason to justify that initial instinct.

[FunkMonk]

Most everything, even reason, is largely dictated by our individual instinctive (and often emotional) response to a situation or a subject.  We then reason to justify that initial instinct.

This is my opinion as well. I even forgot to insert the word 'emotion' in the OP.

We are basically emotional creatures, driven by what our emotions commit us to think, do, and say. But can reason have a morality separate and even superior to that of instinctual or emotional views? I may view slavery as utterly reprehensible, but if someone were to demonstrate the necessity of slavery and be perfectly rational about it, would I be immoral in accepting or even embracing his view? I can see this tying in slightly with the Rational Evil Nazi thread.

[DontSayBanana]

I think morality is more instinctual than logical. Human "reason" operates as a hybrid of instinct and logic; humans are capable of removing the emotional context and analyzing based on pure logic, and humans are capable of "going wild" and operating on blind emotional instinct. I think that resulting hybrid is what you're talking about, but I also believe the two can coexist separately without logic only serving to justify instinctual reactions.

[DGuller]

I think morality has to be logical, simply because the purpose of morality is to force people to act against their instincts, hopefully to the benefit of society.

[DontSayBanana]

I think morality has to be logical, simply because the purpose of morality is to force people to act against their instincts, hopefully to the benefit of society.

Some aspects are. I actually have problems with certain aspects of morality that are quite the opposite. I suppose you could argue that morality is somewhat subjective in that case, but that also takes the curtain of "pure logic" away from it.

[Martinus]

I think you guys got the premise wrong - there is no single system of morality, and even the systems that exist are not homogenous, so saying whether it is based on instinct, reason or something else is a bit moot unless you are talking about a specific moral norm.

Most of the ancient moralities (which have survived due to religion) were based on a mix of instinct and reason. For example, most views on sexual taboos are purely instinctive and based on the "yuck" factor. Also, certain rules used to be based on reason in a specific socio-gegraphical context but no longer make sense because these conditions changed.

I think the argument should be that we should strive to have the entire body of our morality based on reason - only then you can make it subject to a scrutiny, to check whether a given moral rule is sound or just a form of prejudice (for example, only once you employ reason, you can come up with a coherent argument why pedophilia should be seen as morally wrong, but homosexuality between consenting adults not).

[The Brain]

You kids.

I have moved beyond morality.