Rape in America's Prisons

[Barrister]

Anyway, I don't remember all people here jumping to Polanski's defense by claiming that the 13 y.o. "really consented".

Because the fact that there was "consent in fact" is not a defense.   

It is only part of the circumstances that must be considered.

[grumbler]

That's about the closest I'll get to an apology, so thanks.

And I will take your statement as the closest I'll get to an apology, so we are all even.

[Razgovory]

It's a problem for the guards!  They don't like being harassed!

In Missouri they are underpaid losers for the most part.  My mother worked in the Department corrections in the office of personal.  The average corrections officer is employed there for about six months before quiting or being fired.  Wages are terrible and standards are pretty low.  The most common reason for termination: compromise by an inmate.

In that case, you get what you pay for, I imagine.

New York is in the top-ten in prison guard salaries though.

I don't know that for a fact actually, but I would bet it is true even without looking it up.

I suspect this is true.  If you have low pay and low standards (which you have to with low pay), you get crappy people.  To instance my mother told me about.

First while sitting outside on a smoke break she watch as a truck drove up with two inmates in the cab.  It parked and the two inmates hopped out went around back and opened up the trailer and out popped two guards!

Second one.  We read this one in the paper.  Three guards went on a fishing trip.  One had caught a small blue gill.  He said to his friends "Hey guys, watched this" and swallowed the hapless fish whole and alive.  Naturally he choked to death on it.

[Razgovory]

That's about the closest I'll get to an apology, so thanks.

And I will take your statement as the closest I'll get to an apology, so we are all even.

Why should he apologize to you?

[Admiral Yi]

Anyway, I don't remember all people here jumping to Polanski's defense by claiming that the 13 y.o. "really consented".

Might have had something to do with the fact that the victim said "no," repeatedly.

What Strix is doing is exactly the same thing anyone else would do if people claimed Polanski beat her silly and ass fucked her while she was stunned and bleeding--point out that it is not accurate.  The article creates the impression that there are thousands and thousands of cases of prison guards forcibly raping underage inmates.  According to Strix this is an inaccurate representation.  Not a single person has said that prison guards should not be prosecuted for statutory rape of consenting adult inmates, just as not a single person ever said Polanski should be convicted of aggravated sexual assault.

[dps]

It's a problem for the guards!  They don't like being harassed!

In Missouri they are underpaid losers for the most part.  My mother worked in the Department corrections in the office of personal.  The average corrections officer is employed there for about six months before quiting or being fired.  Wages are terrible and standards are pretty low.  The most common reason for termination: compromise by an inmate.

In that case, you get what you pay for, I imagine.

New York is in the top-ten in prison guard salaries though.

I don't know that for a fact actually, but I would bet it is true even without looking it up.

I suspect this is true.  If you have low pay and low standards (which you have to with low pay), you get crappy people.  To instance my mother told me about.

First while sitting outside on a smoke break she watch as a truck drove up with two inmates in the cab.  It parked and the two inmates hopped out went around back and opened up the trailer and out popped two guards!

Second one.  We read this one in the paper.  Three guards went on a fishing trip.  One had caught a small blue gill.  He said to his friends "Hey guys, watched this" and swallowed the hapless fish whole and alive.  Naturally he choked to death on it.

The first bit is pretty troubling, and certainly relates to this discussion.

The second bit, not so much.  I can see a well-educated person in a good paying job pulling a stupid stunt like that on a fishing trip (quite possibly while under the influence of alcohol).

[Strix]

I don't doubt that inmates can and will try to get guards in trouble - they are criminals after all.

I don't see that as a problem though - so what? Obviously guards need to be aware that they have to keep a rather high standard of conduct, if for no other reason than to make sure they cannot be fairly or unfairly implicated by a bunch of criminals. I don't see that as a problem, real or otherwise - just a fact of life. And it would be true no matter how much society spent on prisons.

I think the extent that Strix claims that guards in prisons, at least in new York, are under-paid losers is rather exaggerated as well. Like I said, I know a few people who are in fact guards, and they are paid rather well, have a nice pension, and it is generally considered to be a pretty decent job. Hardly anything prestigious of course, but not at all anything that "losers" do to the exclusion of non-losers. Just a decent middle class job. My niece actually has a bachelors degree, although I am not sure if that is actually a requirement or just a nice -to-have.

I was actually taking a backhanded swipe at Grumbler but he didn't reply to the bait. At least in NY working for DOCS is considered an excellent career since they pay well and only require a HS degree (or NYS GED). The people who join the military, where I grew up, are those who cannot get into college, law enforcement, corrections, or a construction job. If they cannot qualify for the regular military than reserves takes them so that they can go "active" at a later point.

I did exaggerate the extent to which inmates harm guards. It does happen but not that often. I had a cousin who worked at Clinton Correctional Facility. He pissed off some inmates who put a "hit" (to injure) out on him. He was crossing the yard one day while rec was going on and got a softball upside his head at 70+ MPH from about 15 feet away. He had major damage to one of his eyes as well as suffering brain injuries (and many broken facial bones).  My cousin had made the mistake of stopping some hispanics before they could attack a new black inmate.

As for getting guards fired, I understated the issue if anything. I was involved with an investigation last summer that ended up getting three females fired from a local prison and a fourth reassigned. They had gotten mixed up with an inmate who turned them in when I went to violate his parole.

[grumbler]

Why should he apologize to you?

The same reason I should apologize to him.

[Razgovory]

Why should he apologize to you?

The same reason I should apologize to him.

He insulted your wife?  I didn't even know you had a wife.