Europe loses seat at top table

[Zanza]

I think a bigger problem is, as mentioned, not being sure how to represent yourselves: on this side of the pond, it's getting murky on whether to think of European nations as individuals or to think of the EU as a super-state.

Why is that a big problem? 

[grumbler]

I think a bigger problem is, as mentioned, not being sure how to represent yourselves: on this side of the pond, it's getting murky on whether to think of European nations as individuals or to think of the EU as a super-state.

Why is that a big problem? 

That's exactly my question.  The purpose of government is to serve the interests of the people.  In what way is this not happening in Europe today?

[CountDeMoney]

That's exactly my question.  The purpose of government is to serve the interests of the people.  In what way is this not happening in Europe today?

They don't say which "people".  I vote it's us.

[Gambrinus]

As long as it keeps the stability in Europe and remains an active force in the eastward democratization of Europe, I am happy with its role in the world.

That's the important part.  You fuckers can never get along with one another.  Please see: last several centuries.

Ah, yes. I must say American history bores me to death with its endless series of kumbayas, one after another...

Nigga, puhleeze.  There's a substantial drop-off there.  Our lists of casualties at the hands of various Eurotypes is evidence enough.  Stop dragging us into your stupid wars.

Pah, the USA consists of those who chickened out fighting real enemies and instead went overseas to slaughter brown pipple and steal their land. The only occasions where you fought white men on your own soil was when you fought for your right to keep black pipple as slaves.

[Habbaku]

The only occasions where you fought white men on your own soil was when you fought for your right to keep black pipple as slaves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_war_of_independence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812

[Grey Fox]

I guess next time they wont need our help, eh.

[Syt]

Have we gotten rid of the "unanimous decision" bullshit yet? Otherwise we'll never get anything moving in the EU. And if the small countries whine and whinge - WORK TOGETHER TO VOTE THE BIG ONES DOWN! Sheesh.

[Martinus]

Have we gotten rid of the "unanimous decision" bullshit yet? Otherwise we'll never get anything moving in the EU. And if the small countries whine and whinge - WORK TOGETHER TO VOTE THE BIG ONES DOWN! Sheesh.

Uhm yes. Ever heard of the Lisbon Treaty?

[Syt]

Have we gotten rid of the "unanimous decision" bullshit yet? Otherwise we'll never get anything moving in the EU. And if the small countries whine and whinge - WORK TOGETHER TO VOTE THE BIG ONES DOWN! Sheesh.

Uhm yes. Ever heard of the Lisbon Treaty?

I don't follow political news much any more due to disillusion with the current political establishment.

[alfred russel]

@Richard

Frustrating? I don't think so... If Europeans are united in a question, then all their voices say the same. If they aren't, their divisions are useful and can be exploited. A single, truly unified European diplomacy would be at least equally frustrating for them, only in a different way.

Let's be clear about Copenhague: if Obama chose to strike a deal with China (and India) the reason was that China's ideas were far closer to his own position. The result of that summit was no different from other, previous debates on climate change: rightly or wrongly, the fact is America isn't willing to cut emissions as radically as Europe. To suggest that things would have been different if Europe had spoken trough _one_ man (say, Tony Blair) is quaint at best.

Second, we face the old, old, old British contradictions regarding any kind of European Union: you can't say that Europe doesn't work because it has too many leaders, too many voices, and flatly refuse to cooperate in any move towards a single authority. And it's quite funny to see Missirolo quoted like that... would 'The Guardian' prefer the United Kingdom to abandon the international sphere and the European Union to occupy a single seat in the Security Council, G-8 and G-20? I quite doubt it...

In the case of Copenhagen, Europeans were never going to be especially relevant, only because they were the most willing to modify emissions. The most major emitters that were less willing to sign onto an agreement were the critical factors, and those happened to be the US and China.

European powers are still very relevant, depending on the issue. The stands of France and Germany on Iraq caused a great deal of consternation in the US, while the support of the UK was critical.

[Barrister]

Let's be clear about Copenhague: if Obama chose to strike a deal with China (and India) the reason was that China's ideas were far closer to his own position. The result of that summit was no different from other, previous debates on climate change: rightly or wrongly, the fact is America isn't willing to cut emissions as radically as Europe. To suggest that things would have been different if Europe had spoken trough _one_ man (say, Tony Blair) is quaint at best.

Obama didn't 'choose' to strike a deal with China/India.

He had to.  Everyone had to.  Given the size of the Indian and CHinese economies (and growth rates), plus combined with their already sizeable emissions, any deal at Copenhagen HAD to include China and India.

[Gambrinus]

The only occasions where you fought white men on your own soil was when you fought for your right to keep black pipple as slaves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_war_of_independence

[garbon]

Pah, the USA consists of those who chickened out fighting real enemies and instead went overseas to slaughter brown pipple and steal their land. The only occasions where you fought white men on your own soil was when you fought for your right to keep black pipple as slaves.

Many of our people are brown people.

Anyway, I presume Seedy was talking about all the men we had to send to Europe to protect Europe from itself.

[KRonn]

Pah, the USA consists of those who chickened out fighting real enemies and instead went overseas to slaughter brown pipple and steal their land. The only occasions where you fought white men on your own soil was when you fought for your right to keep black pipple as slaves.

Many of our people are brown people.

Anyway, I presume Seedy was talking about all the men we had to send to Europe to protect Europe from itself.

Folks, be nice. When we fight amongst ourselves, the terrorists win!!   

[grumbler]

Pah, the USA consists of those who chickened out fighting real enemies and instead went overseas to slaughter brown pipple and steal their land. The only occasions where you fought white men on your own soil was when you fought for your right to keep black pipple as slaves.

Many of our people are brown people.

Anyway, I presume Seedy was talking about all the men we had to send to Europe to protect Europe from itself.

I think you are over-analyzing.  Gambrinus is just pulling a Seedy on Seedy.