Star Wars vs Star Trek - the ultimate nerd battle

[Barrister]

Trying to be charitable to Marty it may be that Dr. Who wasn't played in communist Poland, so Torchwood is his first exposure to Dr. Who.

But even then - surely the new Dr. Who series is more popular than Torchwood?

It's just bizarre...

[Queequeg]

Frank Herbert almost sued Lucas.

That only proves that Herbert is a little bit crazy/stupid.

That'd be like Anne Rice suing that Twilight bitch.

Actually, I don't think he particularly wanted to, just that some friends/family members pushed it, IIRC. 

Exactly.  If you follow Spellus's link, it also credits LotR, 2001, Forbidden Planet, the Wizard of Oz, and Ben-Hur as inspiration.

It clearly gives most prominence to Dune.  I didn't say that Star Wars WAS Dune, just that it was clearly influenced quite a bit by it, and that I liked that. Did you check out the list of similarities that they had? It has friggin Spice Mines on a Desert Planet.  Even some of Star Wars' Buddhist/spiritual stuff has some clear roots in the Bene Gesserit and the more Zen parts of the Zensunni. 

[katmai]

Can we purge spellus from the whole forums?

[Neil]

There were mines on Tatooine?

[Queequeg]

There were mines on Tatooine?

Sandcrawlers "from a mining period long time ago".  Sandcrawlers were used on Arrakis to mine, though I'd forgotten that Spice was from kessel, hence requiring a "run".  Compare Anakin's uncle "dew collecting" with what the Fremen did. Or Jedi Bendu with Prana Bindu.

I'm a little surprised you guys are giving me shit for this.  Compare the "Jedi Mind Trick" to the Bene Gesserit voice , Jedi strength and speed to the Bene Gesserit, their reliance on Koans, even some very small things like automated sword targeting dummies and the appearance of Jabba the Hutt (compare Leto II) seem influenced by Dune. 

I think some things are coincidental; both draw up awkwardly maintained, overly stressed Empires, though I think Star Wars draws upon the Roman Republic (via Asimov, somewhat), while Dune borrows from the campaign of T.E. Lawrence and the fall of the Sassanids (partially via the Shahnameh, referenced within the text) and Byzantines, as well as OPEC. 

[Neil]

You're reaching.

[Queequeg]

You're reaching.

Jedi Bindu and Prana Bendu? Spice as an addictive drug that has to be mined?  Zen and Koans in space? Really? 

[Neil]

You're reaching.

Jedi Bindu and Prana Bendu? Spice as an addictive drug that has to be mined?  Zen and Koans in space? Really? 

Really.

[Queequeg]

I said "has more Dune".  And I've proven some manner of influence from Dune.  I didn't say "OMG IT TOOK EVERYTHING FROM DUNE", just some key concepts and gave back more than a few references.  It is even in Frank Herbert's Wikipedia page.  The early drafts of Star War's script have feuding feudal families and Princess Leia guarding a shipment of aura spice. 

[Neil]

I said "has more Dune".  And I've proven some manner of influence from Dune.  I didn't say "OMG IT TOOK EVERYTHING FROM DUNE", just some key concepts and gave back more than a few references.  It is even in Frank Herbert's Wikipedia page.  The early drafts of Star War's script have feuding feudal families and Princess Leia guarding a shipment of aura spice.

You haven't described any key concepts that are taken from Dune.  I mean, the whole spice thing is utterly irrelevant.

[Sheilbh]

Has Lucas ever said he was inspired by Dune?  He has certainly acknowledged the other sources that were discussed.

Googling this I get a number of sites saying that the link's something Lucas has acknowledged in numerous interviews.  It would be, frankly, more unusual if he weren't influenced by Dune.  He's making a science fiction film and Dune was by that point, I believe, widely considered a classic of the genre.

[Sheilbh]

You haven't described any key concepts that are taken from Dune.  I mean, the whole spice thing is utterly irrelevant.

What would you class as a key concept?

[Neil]

You haven't described any key concepts that are taken from Dune.  I mean, the whole spice thing is utterly irrelevant.

What would you class as a key concept?

A concept that is actually important to the story and world of Star Wars.

[Queequeg]

You haven't described any key concepts that are taken from Dune.  I mean, the whole spice thing is utterly irrelevant.

1) Koans.  A lot of the Zen stuff from Dune ended up in Star Wars.
2) A lot of the magic, witchery.  The Jedi are a mysterious centralized, pan-galactic organization that attempts to warp and interact with peoples on thousands of different planets, and have powers including ultra-rapid response in melee combat, various breath and body control powers, as well as the ability to influence weaker minds with a special voice.  The two concepts (Para Bendu and Jedi Bindu) even have variants of the same name.  Bene Gesserit + Samurai = Jedai. 
3) I think the presence of guidance by the disembodied voices of dead people (Harkonen-Alia, Obi-Luke) and occasional glimpses of the future have quite a bit in common with Dune, though granted they are just as likely to come from some other source. 

All of this is a lot more obvious in the original; the Fairy Tale element, present in all of Star Wars and not really there in Dune, kind of becomes triumphant by Return of the Jedi (in the Dune Universe, the Ewoks would have been glassed with stoneburners).  But I still think the influence of Dune, particularly in A New Hope, is almost as apparent as the influence of The Hidden Fortress, though granted they influenced different things.

[Sheilbh]

A concept that is actually important to the story and world of Star Wars.

Okay, but I'm still not sure what you mean by concept.  Sorry