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Dinosaurs v. Mammals: The Final Conflict

Started by Queequeg, January 02, 2010, 11:57:03 PM

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Barrister

Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

alfred russel

Quote from: Queequeg on January 04, 2010, 05:10:21 PM
Quote from: Viking on January 04, 2010, 11:17:08 AM
How is it not true?
A human being is a more complex organism than a Myllokunmingia.  I don't think "more evolved" would be unfair.

If you look at it in terms of changes in DNA, I would think the rates of change would be much higher in a population of bacteria rather than humans (at least those with conjugation). That seems like one logical way to quantify evolutionary change.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

Ed Anger

If it was a Laventri Beria center, I'd get my tickets STAT.

My mere presence would swell the tourism dollars up there to 20 bucks for the year.
Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

Razgovory

The thing with living organisms is that they've all share the same lineage.  Since all organisms share the same line of decent all the lines of decent are the same age.  All organisms would be at the same level of "evolved".  Complexity is different issue but more complex organisms are not more evolved organisms.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Viking

Quote from: Queequeg on January 04, 2010, 05:10:21 PM
Quote from: Viking on January 04, 2010, 11:17:08 AM
How is it not true?
A human being is a more complex organism than a Myllokunmingia.  I don't think "more evolved" would be unfair.

That's a bit subjective there defining a complex organism as "more evolved", simple organisms can be almost perfectly adapted to their environment. Furthermore you have many apparently simple organisms which have many times more genes than we do, sure they are more complex than us? Your anthropocentrism dissapoints me.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

The Brain

Quote from: Viking on January 05, 2010, 01:51:51 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on January 04, 2010, 05:10:21 PM
Quote from: Viking on January 04, 2010, 11:17:08 AM
How is it not true?
A human being is a more complex organism than a Myllokunmingia.  I don't think "more evolved" would be unfair.

That's a bit subjective there defining a complex organism as "more evolved", simple organisms can be almost perfectly adapted to their environment. Furthermore you have many apparently simple organisms which have many times more genes than we do, sure they are more complex than us? Your anthropocentrism dissapoints me.

How do you evolve when you are perfectly adapted to your environment?
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

alfred russel

Quote from: Razgovory on January 04, 2010, 11:53:48 PM
The thing with living organisms is that they've all share the same lineage.  Since all organisms share the same line of decent all the lines of decent are the same age.  All organisms would be at the same level of "evolved".  Complexity is different issue but more complex organisms are not more evolved organisms.

A lot of factors influence the rates of genetic change besides the passage of time: average generation time, population size, mutation rates (these are not the same as there are different environmental factors, as well as different intracelluar controls), sexual life cycles (typical diploid sexual such as us, haplodiploidity in many eusocial species, and the extent asexuality is present), and the extent genes can be integrated from the environment.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

alfred russel

Raz, think about it this way: if we put a 20 year generation time period on humans and our recent ancestors, in the past 5 million years we've had 250,000 generations. It's possible for bacteria to cram that many generations into a human lifetime.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014