American Innumeracy

[The Brain]

I don't think there's any polite way to say this so I won't: people who don't get math are stupid. It's OK, most people are stupid.

I've always found math boring and I've always been great at it. Just like other theoretical subjects.

[Iormlund]

Well, the talk of math understanding being something that's innate to each individual also argues that it's not something that different teachers and/or different methods of teaching won't have much impact on.  It it's innate, there wasn't much else that Meri's teachers could do except go, "Oh, you just don't get it.  Too bad.".

Not true.  People learn in different ways.  People can learn to understand maths in different ways.  As an example, I used to tutor kids in algebra.  Factoring trinomials was hard for them.  The teacher used to teach the tabular method and all of the special rules that were shortcuts past the tabular method.  I told the kids to ignore the special rules, because "Mister Table never fails."  I had them do problems the "long way' until they themselves realized that there were special cases that let them take shortcuts.  These were, of course, the special rules that the teacher had tried to teach them along with the table method, and which they couldn't get that way.  Once they developed them on their own, though, they could use the special rules with great faculty.

It is called "discovery learning" and is very powerful, but isn't popular because it is harder to teach.  Not really any more time-consuming, just harder to plan out.

That reminds me of something: I once managed to make a kid realize he already understood differentiation and integration using EVE examples, like damage curves over time for a blaster Mega during a 1v1 engagement.
It was kind of funny seeing him going from 'Fuck this math thing is hard' to 'Holy shit who knew it was so easy!'.

[DGuller]

Calc 2 is what, integrals? That shit was much more intuitive than linear algebra.

They're very different beasts.  I can see someone hating one and not the other.  I wasn't a big fan of calculus either, but I loved linear algebra and discrete math, even though they came later.

[grumbler]

That reminds me of something: I once managed to make a kid realize he already understood differentiation and integration using EVE examples, like damage curves over time for a blaster Mega during a 1v1 engagement.
It was kind of funny seeing him going from 'Fuck this math thing is hard' to 'Holy shit who knew it was so easy!'.

Exactly.  Maths is a language - the key is understanding that it is actually saying something, and isn't just a set of arbitrary rules.  It isn't generally taught that way, though, so people don't see the forest because they are staring at trees.

[Camerus]

Part of the problem may lie in alternate approaches to math education that have been taken in the past decade or two.  Anecdotally speaking, when I was getting my B.Ed, some of my classmates preparing to be elementary teachers told me that it was suggested to them they do not teach students multiplication tables, since that involved "rote learning" and was therefore bad.   Instead, students were to be encouraged to find their own methods at coming to the truths of basic multiplication. 

That's not to say such new approaches may not work well in some instances, but in retrospect I'm certainly glad I had the multiplication tables drilled into my head from rote learning.   

[CountDeMoney]

Since we are reminiscing, taking an Algebra course after a 18 year gap is awesome.

Me: WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT?

Got a "B" 

Yeah, the instructors tend to take it a little easier on the older students.  When I was going back for my degree in my 30s, and the instructor found out I was the only student that hadn't had a math class since the Reagan Administration, the only question he asked was "and you need this to graduate, right?"  C-. Undergraduate grade inflation FTW.

Of course, didn't help that I hit the math wall in 4th grade.

[Sheilbh]

Though there's little application for trigonometry for most careers, applied maths would be a big help. Whether it's cheaper to buy 8 beers for £7 from the supermarket, or 6 beers for £5 from the corner store, to give an example I used only this morning

  I agree.  The best maths lessons I had was when we did financial stuff like compound interest and APR etc.  It started with a lecture from my teacher in which he explained why, based on his own life, you should never, ever get a credit card.  I didn't learn

I just looked up trigonometry.  I did learn all that, but I don't think I was ever taught that that was its name

[crazy canuck]

Well, the talk of math understanding being something that's innate to each individual also argues that it's not something that different teachers and/or different methods of teaching won't have much impact on.  It it's innate, there wasn't much else that Meri's teachers could do except go, "Oh, you just don't get it.  Too bad.".

Not true.  People learn in different ways.  People can learn to understand maths in different ways.  As an example, I used to tutor kids in algebra.  Factoring trinomials was hard for them.  The teacher used to teach the tabular method and all of the special rules that were shortcuts past the tabular method.  I told the kids to ignore the special rules, because "Mister Table never fails."  I had them do problems the "long way' until they themselves realized that there were special cases that let them take shortcuts.  These were, of course, the special rules that the teacher had tried to teach them along with the table method, and which they couldn't get that way.  Once they developed them on their own, though, they could use the special rules with great faculty.

It is called "discovery learning" and is very powerful, but isn't popular because it is harder to teach.  Not really any more time-consuming, just harder to plan out.

If you ever want a change, I am pretty sure I can get you a job at my kids school.

[Neil]

Everybody should have a credit card.  You just shouldn't use it.

[Sheilbh]

Everybody should have a credit card.  You just shouldn't use it.

Actually that was the moral of his story.  I really didn't listen

[Martinus]

Everybody should have a credit card.  You just shouldn't use it.

That's what I do actually. I have two but I keep them just in case. I use my debit card (which does not do overdrafts) for my day-to-day purchases.