Divine Inspiration or Divine Dictation?

[crazy canuck]

What is funny is that people will hold this (perfectly viable) belief, and yet also think that the Bible is relevant.  Since God's will cannot be understood, a book that "explains" his will is clearly fraudulent.

That is a good way to put it.

[Neil]

Yeah, the fact that there are so many bullshit excuses for this is great evidence that the question has no satisfying answer.

You don't find the insignificance of human life, and especially individual human life, on a cosmic scale to be satisfying?

[Valmy]

"Relevant" in that it supposedly tells you what God wants done or not done in certain circumstances.  No one can know if "god hates fags" unless his will is knowable - but it then is monstrous, since it includes allowing the innocent to suffer when he could prevent that.  If his will is unknowable, all of those who claim in the bible to know his will are frauds.

Yep I agree with you on that.  All it means is that people at one point in history interpreted God's will to mean that he hates fags.

[crazy canuck]

Yes that is one of the frequent answers that makes no sense.   A God, which if the NT is to be believed is all loving, creates a world in which evil exists with no apparent explanation.  Sorry not buying.

Perhaps "suffering" and "evil" are part of "love."

Then you are torturing the word into meaninglessness.

[Valmy]

Then you are torturing the word into meaninglessness.

Tough love!

[Queequeg]

Of course the religious veiwpoint is that God is very responsive to you - and that you just aren't listening.

More to the point, if this is God's way of being responsive, I dont like what he is or what he has to say. ie there is no good explanation of why, if there is a God, terrible things happen to good/innocent/(whatever similar adjective you want to use) people.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=why+does+god+let+good+people+suffer&meta=&aq=1&oq=why+does+God+let+go

Results 1 - 10 of about 303,000 for why does god let good people suffer.

Yeah, the fact that there are so many bullshit excuses for this is great evidence that the question has no satisfying answer.

Christianity isn't strictly Utilitarian, you are looking at it from the wrong perspective.  Suffering can be (and often is) sacred.  The religion's most important moment was the Crucifixion, which even from a secular perspective was probably among the most painful experiences ever. That's why Judaism doesn't have traditional martyrs (at least as a religion; there have been millions of Martyrs who have been Jews), Christian martyrs tend to be meek, humble and kind and face death and suffering with the bravest possible faith, while Muslim martyrs die in battle with a lance sticking out of their chest screaming ALLAHU AKBAR. 

[crazy canuck]

Then you are torturing the word into meaninglessness.

Tough love!

I love you therefore I will allow you and your whole family to die of desease, famine, flood etc etc etc.

Tough love indeed.

[Queequeg]

Honestly, none of you seem to get that suffering is an integral part of Christianity.  Were all the depictions of Christ on the Cross too subtle for you guy or what?

[Valmy]

I love you therefore I will allow you and your whole family to die of desease, famine, flood etc etc etc.

Tough love indeed.

Indeed.  We sure learned our lesson about not relying on invisible Gods to protect us from disease, famine, and floods!

[Neil]

Honestly, none of you seem to get that suffering is an integral part of Christianity.  Were all the depictions of Christ on the Cross too subtle for you guy or what?

Not everyone comes from weird, backwards Christian rites.  Besides, most people think of religions that encourage suffering as evil.

[Valmy]

Honestly, none of you seem to get that suffering is an integral part of Christianity.  Were all the depictions of Christ on the Cross too subtle for you guy or what?

He is only suffering because we all suck and therefore he is sacrificing himself so that we might be forgiven.  If we were just better than he wouldn't have to suffer.

[crazy canuck]

Honestly, none of you seem to get that suffering is an integral part of Christianity.  Were all the depictions of Christ on the Cross too subtle for you guy or what?

If you read your NT you will see Christ suffered and died for us so we didnt have to.  You see the story goes that God so loved the world that he gave his only son.  God loves us so much in fact that he created this world for us.  But he did a really shitty job and then cheaped out on the maintenance contract.

[Queequeg]

Honestly, none of you seem to get that suffering is an integral part of Christianity.  Were all the depictions of Christ on the Cross too subtle for you guy or what?

Not everyone comes from weird, backwards Christian rites.  Besides, most people think of religions that encourage suffering as evil.

Encourage and hold sacred are not the same thing.  I don't think anyone here would encourage everyone in the world to die fighting injustice, but even the secular world holds such people in esteem (Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Sophie Scholl, etc..)

[Queequeg]

Honestly, none of you seem to get that suffering is an integral part of Christianity.  Were all the depictions of Christ on the Cross too subtle for you guy or what?

If you read your NT you will see Christ suffered and died for us so we didnt have to.  You see the story goes that God so loved the world that he gave his only son.  God loves us so much in fact that he created this world for us.  But he did a really shitty job and then cheaped out on the maintenance contract.

Made redemption in the next life possible, you are forgetting that.

[Valmy]

If you read your NT you will see Christ suffered and died for us so we didnt have to.  You see the story goes that God so loved the world that he gave his only son.  God loves us so much in fact that he created this world for us.  But he did a really shitty job and then cheaped out on the maintenance contract.

It only makes sense at all if you realize that after Jesus died his followers had to grapple with why it was he died.  They interpreted it this way and the funny part is that their interpretation grew to to be much more important to his religion than anything he actually did or said in life.  Then they even went back and made his birth miraculous as well.

History has a sense of humor that way.  I sometimes feel sorry for Jesus, he had a message but nobody listens that closely because all they care about is his postmortem interpretation.