News:

And we're back!

Main Menu

I want to breathe

Started by Monoriu, December 17, 2009, 01:15:18 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Martinus

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 17, 2009, 05:05:58 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 17, 2009, 01:15:18 AM
I've been to many different cities in the world.  I am hard pressed to find any place that has worse air than ours :weep:

Tell your PLA overlords in Copenhagen to stop being dicks and do something about it.

This.

MadImmortalMan

They have fresh air in British Columbia. Move there.  :)
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Monoriu

Quote from: Brazen on December 17, 2009, 12:14:38 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 17, 2009, 10:50:08 AM
I think the problem is actually that the government is unable/unwilling to take on the population.  The sources of pollution are cars, buses, and the power plants.  To tackle them means raising the prices of public transport, electricity, and car ownership substantially.  They just don't dare to piss people off.
Reducing the price of public transport is what decreases pollution. There's far less particulates per person when there's 50 people in a bus that one person in a car.

In HK, the vast majority of the people already take public transport.  The problem is that the buses are 10-20 year old models that emit a lot of pollutants.  The bus companies won't/can't replace them with the latest models unless the government let them raise fees.  If the government mandates them to replace their buses, they will lose money and stockholders will go to the courts.  Reducing fares won't encourage people to stop driving and take the bus.

Monoriu

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 17, 2009, 02:23:09 PM
They have fresh air in British Columbia. Move there.  :)

Fresh air is what I miss most. 

Zanza

Quote from: Monoriu on December 17, 2009, 08:27:08 PMIn HK, the vast majority of the people already take public transport.  The problem is that the buses are 10-20 year old models that emit a lot of pollutants.  The bus companies won't/can't replace them with the latest models unless the government let them raise fees.  If the government mandates them to replace their buses, they will lose money and stockholders will go to the courts.  Reducing fares won't encourage people to stop driving and take the bus.
:huh: Wouldn't they lose in courts? Mandating certain emission standards seems to be a perfectly valid government competence to me. At least in the Western world.

By the way, there are now busses that have fuel cell electrical engines emitting nothing but water vapour and driving completely silent. Hong Kong with its huge population density would be perfect for that.

Monoriu

Quote from: Zanza on December 18, 2009, 02:10:28 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 17, 2009, 08:27:08 PMIn HK, the vast majority of the people already take public transport.  The problem is that the buses are 10-20 year old models that emit a lot of pollutants.  The bus companies won't/can't replace them with the latest models unless the government let them raise fees.  If the government mandates them to replace their buses, they will lose money and stockholders will go to the courts.  Reducing fares won't encourage people to stop driving and take the bus.
:huh: Wouldn't they lose in courts? Mandating certain emission standards seems to be a perfectly valid government competence to me. At least in the Western world.

By the way, there are now busses that have fuel cell electrical engines emitting nothing but water vapour and driving completely silent. Hong Kong with its huge population density would be perfect for that.

Bus fares are regulated by the government.  If the government mandates tougher emission standards AND refuse to let them raise fares, the bus companies will have grounds to complain. 

Zanza

I thought you guys were arch-capitalists? Why are the bus fares regulated by government? Even our government-owned transport companies raise prices whenever they like to.

Monoriu

Quote from: Zanza on December 18, 2009, 02:57:21 AM
I thought you guys were arch-capitalists? Why are the bus fares regulated by government? Even our government-owned transport companies raise prices whenever they like to.

We fooled you  :P

Bus companies are privately-owned for profit entities that are traded on the stock exchange, but they are heavily regulated.  They enjoy a monopoly in a given area of the city, but in exchange they must comply with government oversight.  The fare levels must be approved by government, the routes are fixed, and the frequency of service is also mandated by government. 

Yet another problem is that our bus service is too good.  There are far too many routes, far too many bus stops, and far too many half-empty buses on the roads.  The government wants to cut them, but every time it tries to do so it creates an uproar from the population. 

Brazen

Quote from: Zanza on December 18, 2009, 02:10:28 AM
:huh: Wouldn't they lose in courts? Mandating certain emission standards seems to be a perfectly valid government competence to me. At least in the Western world.

By the way, there are now busses that have fuel cell electrical engines emitting nothing but water vapour and driving completely silent. Hong Kong with its huge population density would be perfect for that.
Still need power stations to charge them and there's no room for nuclear power stations in HK. LPG is the best thing for public transport and delivery vehicles.