So... someone confesses murder to you

[Valmy]

So killing unarmed palestinian civilians is cool because that's killing enemies, and is not murder?

I am not sure why the concept that Palestinians and Israelis are enemies is such a difficult concept for so many people.

[grumbler]

I am not sure why the concept that Palestinians and Israelis are enemies is such a difficult concept for so many people.

Because it is a bogus concept?

Palestinians and Israelis are not enemies.  Some Palestinians are enemies of the state of Israel (and therefor most Israelis), and vice-versa, but this idea that person A is an enemy of person B merely by virtue of the fact that A is Palestinian and B is Israeli is an absurd contention.  Hannan Ashrawi is not an enemy of any Israelis, insofar as I know.  Jamal Zahalka is not the enemy of any Palestinians, insofar as I know.

I am not sure why the concept that people are not enemies because of "blood" is such a difficult concept for so many people.

[Admiral Yi]

I am not sure why the concept that Palestinians and Israelis are enemies is such a difficult concept for so many people.

So far I have seen no sign that it is a difficult concept for anyone.  Well, in the media and from professional Israel haters I've seen plenty of signs, but none in this thread and none by migliamaster.

[Pat]

I am not sure why the concept that Palestinians and Israelis are enemies is such a difficult concept for so many people.

Because it is a bogus concept?

Palestinians and Israelis are not enemies.  Some Palestinians are enemies of the state of Israel (and therefor most Israelis), and vice-versa, but this idea that person A is an enemy of person B merely by virtue of the fact that A is Palestinian and B is Israeli is an absurd contention.  Hannan Ashrawi is not an enemy of any Israelis, insofar as I know.  Jamal Zahalka is not the enemy of any Palestinians, insofar as I know.

I am not sure why the concept that people are not enemies because of "blood" is such a difficult concept for so many people.

Excellently put grumbler, that's my position as well.

[Strix]

What I think is BS is that people in this thread are saying that (relating back to the Malthus WWII example) in this situation they would actually go to the police and report the guy.  You might think, philosophically, that this is the right thing to do, but I don't believe for a second anyone would *actually* do this, aside from possibly someone like Beeb who is constantly in contact with the police in his town anyway so presumably is very familiar with them (same might go for Strix).

Ok, relating back to the Mathus WWII example. I think it's even more important in that instance because of the circumstances surrounding it. Was the dead sailor reported missing? Was he reported as deserting ship? Was he reported as a suicide? If he was reported as deserting or suicide than his name has been tarnished in the eyes of his family, friends, and his country. It might seem like a small thing but to report his murder to the naval authorities could have a profound change in his final status and could give his family a tremendous piece of mind to know he hadn't deserted or killed himself. Is it likely that the navy could prove who exactly the murderer was? Maybe. The guy seems free and easy with his story. Would it go anywhere? Probably not but it could change a lot of people's lives for the better.

Murder is murder. If he did it once than he can do it again (and I have been told by multiple murders that the second time is easier). Chances are he probably will not. I, personally, would sleep better at night knowing that I tried to do something, no matter how futile, so that if it does happen again I am not spending the rest of my life wondering what if I had told would it have happened. That's a lot of guilt.

[Strix]

Because it is a bogus concept?

Palestinians and Israelis are not enemies.  Some Palestinians are enemies of the state of Israel (and therefor most Israelis), and vice-versa, but this idea that person A is an enemy of person B merely by virtue of the fact that A is Palestinian and B is Israeli is an absurd contention.  Hannan Ashrawi is not an enemy of any Israelis, insofar as I know.  Jamal Zahalka is not the enemy of any Palestinians, insofar as I know.

I am not sure why the concept that people are not enemies because of "blood" is such a difficult concept for so many people.

Exactly!

It's an easy way out for the haters. If they exam their "blood" enemies too closely than it would become hard to hate them as a group. Dehumanizing them and making them into a faceless group is the key to making it easier to hurt them in the name of whatever cause on either side.

[Valmy]

I am not sure why the concept that Palestinians and Israelis are enemies is such a difficult concept for so many people.

So far I have seen no sign that it is a difficult concept for anyone.  Well, in the media and from professional Israel haters I've seen plenty of signs, but none in this thread and none by migliamaster.

I do.  The expectation is constantly that Israel should be the ones keeping Gaza afloat while Hamas is in charge and oddly that is not working.  It is a tremendous set up.   

Miglia seems to be trying to bait Siegey about Palestinian Civilians because...I don't know...he just cannot accept that fact?

[Valmy]

I am not sure why the concept that Palestinians and Israelis are enemies is such a difficult concept for so many people.

Because it is a bogus concept?

Palestinians and Israelis are not enemies.  Some Palestinians are enemies of the state of Israel (and therefor most Israelis), and vice-versa, but this idea that person A is an enemy of person B merely by virtue of the fact that A is Palestinian and B is Israeli is an absurd contention.  Hannan Ashrawi is not an enemy of any Israelis, insofar as I know.  Jamal Zahalka is not the enemy of any Palestinians, insofar as I know.

I am not sure why the concept that people are not enemies because of "blood" is such a difficult concept for so many people.

Yeah I did not say anything about blood only political realities for the past several decades.  If you want to mean that all Israelis and Palestinians have some sort of blood lust for each other...well I don't think you necessarily need that to be enemies.

[Malthus]

What I think is BS is that people in this thread are saying that (relating back to the Malthus WWII example) in this situation they would actually go to the police and report the guy.  You might think, philosophically, that this is the right thing to do, but I don't believe for a second anyone would *actually* do this, aside from possibly someone like Beeb who is constantly in contact with the police in his town anyway so presumably is very familiar with them (same might go for Strix).

Ok, relating back to the Mathus WWII example. I think it's even more important in that instance because of the circumstances surrounding it. Was the dead sailor reported missing? Was he reported as deserting ship? Was he reported as a suicide? If he was reported as deserting or suicide than his name has been tarnished in the eyes of his family, friends, and his country. It might seem like a small thing but to report his murder to the naval authorities could have a profound change in his final status and could give his family a tremendous piece of mind to know he hadn't deserted or killed himself. Is it likely that the navy could prove who exactly the murderer was? Maybe. The guy seems free and easy with his story. Would it go anywhere? Probably not but it could change a lot of people's lives for the better.

Murder is murder. If he did it once than he can do it again (and I have been told by multiple murders that the second time is easier). Chances are he probably will not. I, personally, would sleep better at night knowing that I tried to do something, no matter how futile, so that if it does happen again I am not spending the rest of my life wondering what if I had told would it have happened. That's a lot of guilt.

There is no really practical way to desert a ship in the North Atlantic in wartime in winter, so I'd not lose any sleep over the possibility that his family considered him a deserter. Most likely, such a death would be put down to an accident.

I doubt that any stink stirred up would change anyone's life for the better, and can easily see it changing many people's lives for the worse - certainly it would not do his wife, kids and grand-kids any good. The argument from utility is worthless in this case.

As far as chances of a repeat goes, I'd think this was the poster-child case for the opposite. The guy committed a crime as a young man, was haunted by guilt for forty years, and became a well-respected professor without a hint of any subsequent bad behaviour. Does it seem likely to you to be the sort of person who is going to be a serial killer on the side? Someone likely to be a repeat killer is more likely to be someone who did *not* feel guilt.

A better argument is that kicking up an investigation serves the ends of justice, in *spite* of all the harm likely to come to others by bringing up a 40 year old crime. Throw into the mix the fact that any such investigation is quite likely to be utterly futile (even if you succeeded in interesting some investigator in it - I find it hard to believe that anyone is going to take seriously a grade 10 student's allegations that a prof he just met that day confessed a 40 year old murder to him - of some unnamed person on an unnamed ship in WW2).

I never lost any sleep over it, and the guy has been dead for something like 20 years now anyway.

[Admiral Yi]

I do.  The expectation is constantly that Israel should be the ones keeping Gaza afloat while Hamas is in charge and oddly that is not working.  It is a tremendous set up.   

Miglia seems to be trying to bait Siegey about Palestinian Civilians because...I don't know...he just cannot accept that fact?

He seems to be trying to bait Seebrew because Seeb's prior post about not killing your own civilians left open the possibility that killing someone else's civilians is OK.

[dps]

What I think is BS is that people in this thread are saying that (relating back to the Malthus WWII example) in this situation they would actually go to the police and report the guy.  You might think, philosophically, that this is the right thing to do, but I don't believe for a second anyone would *actually* do this, aside from possibly someone like Beeb who is constantly in contact with the police in his town anyway so presumably is very familiar with them (same might go for Strix).

Ok, relating back to the Mathus WWII example. I think it's even more important in that instance because of the circumstances surrounding it. Was the dead sailor reported missing? Was he reported as deserting ship? Was he reported as a suicide? If he was reported as deserting or suicide than his name has been tarnished in the eyes of his family, friends, and his country. It might seem like a small thing but to report his murder to the naval authorities could have a profound change in his final status and could give his family a tremendous piece of mind to know he hadn't deserted or killed himself. Is it likely that the navy could prove who exactly the murderer was? Maybe. The guy seems free and easy with his story. Would it go anywhere? Probably not but it could change a lot of people's lives for the better.

Murder is murder. If he did it once than he can do it again (and I have been told by multiple murders that the second time is easier). Chances are he probably will not. I, personally, would sleep better at night knowing that I tried to do something, no matter how futile, so that if it does happen again I am not spending the rest of my life wondering what if I had told would it have happened. That's a lot of guilt.

Because of your position, aren't you considered an officer of the court, and therefore legally required to report something like this?

[dps]

I do.  The expectation is constantly that Israel should be the ones keeping Gaza afloat while Hamas is in charge and oddly that is not working.  It is a tremendous set up.   

Miglia seems to be trying to bait Siegey about Palestinian Civilians because...I don't know...he just cannot accept that fact?

He seems to be trying to bait Seebrew because Seeb's prior post about not killing your own civilians left open the possibility that killing someone else's civilians is OK.

I don't think it was baiting, because it seems to me that that was exactly what Seigy was getting at.  That, or that no Palestinian are to be considered civilians.  It seems perfectly reasonable to ask for clarification.

[Pat]

I am not sure why the concept that Palestinians and Israelis are enemies is such a difficult concept for so many people.

So far I have seen no sign that it is a difficult concept for anyone.  Well, in the media and from professional Israel haters I've seen plenty of signs, but none in this thread and none by migliamaster.

I do.  The expectation is constantly that Israel should be the ones keeping Gaza afloat while Hamas is in charge and oddly that is not working.  It is a tremendous set up.   

Miglia seems to be trying to bait Siegey about Palestinian Civilians because...I don't know...he just cannot accept that fact?

What the hell are you talking about? Who's said anything about Gaza or Hamas? I sure haven't. 

And pray do tell how I am "baiting" Siege - all I did was repeat his exact words back at him, and ask him if that was what he meant.

[Barrister]

Really?

So if I go into a police station and say "I killed John Doe" despite there being no evidence I did so or that John Doe even exists, I can go to jail?

I said "Sure you can", not "it will happen 100%".  It would, as in so many things, depend on the situation.

[Barrister]

And also, there is a third situation - when the client tells a lawyer he or she intends to commit one of the listed serious felonies - then the lawyer is required to report that.

We do have that exception to Solicitor-client privilege - if a client tells you of plans to commit a serious offence (in particular one of violence) you must violate privilege.