Why China Won't Rule the World

[Martinus]

Because today when we hear about "colonialism" it hardly ever has to do with actually colonizing anything.  What it usually means is a business based in a first world country wants to do business inside a third world country.

And if that's colonizing, then China has been much better at it than us.

[Monoriu]

That ignores two things. 1, that borders have changed over time. 2, that Americans moving into the west is certainly considered colonialism even though they were within our borders at the time. How is the Han migration different?

The biggest difference is that China will not criticize others for doing it, and the courtesy is not returned

[jimmy olsen]

That ignores two things. 1, that borders have changed over time. 2, that Americans moving into the west is certainly considered colonialism even though they were within our borders at the time. How is the Han migration different?

The biggest difference is that China will not criticize others for doing it, and the courtesy is not returned

I seem to remember a simdgeon of criticism about the Japanese colonization of Manchuria.

[Monoriu]

That ignores two things. 1, that borders have changed over time. 2, that Americans moving into the west is certainly considered colonialism even though they were within our borders at the time. How is the Han migration different?

The biggest difference is that China will not criticize others for doing it, and the courtesy is not returned

I seem to remember a simdgeon of criticism about the Japanese colonization of Manchuria.

That's armed invasion on a totally different level. 

[Martinus]

That ignores two things. 1, that borders have changed over time. 2, that Americans moving into the west is certainly considered colonialism even though they were within our borders at the time. How is the Han migration different?

The biggest difference is that China will not criticize others for doing it, and the courtesy is not returned

Please tell me you are joking and not arguing that if a country A did something 200 years ago, it cannot criticize a country B doing that thing today?

[DisturbedPervert]

That's armed invasion on a totally different level.

Tibetans would disagree

[Monoriu]

That ignores two things. 1, that borders have changed over time. 2, that Americans moving into the west is certainly considered colonialism even though they were within our borders at the time. How is the Han migration different?

The biggest difference is that China will not criticize others for doing it, and the courtesy is not returned

Please tell me you are joking and not arguing that if a country A did something 200 years ago, it cannot criticize a country B doing that thing today?

I am using this as an example to tell the difference between Chinese and western culture.

[Monoriu]

That's armed invasion on a totally different level.

Tibetans would disagree

Of course.  But any impartial observer should see the difference between Japanese conquest of Manchuria and Hans moving to Tibet.  It is just as absurd to compare Operation Barbarossa with US Manifest Destiny. 

[DisturbedPervert]

Hans 'moved' to Tibet right behind the tanks and soldiers that conquered it

[Monoriu]

Hans 'moved' to Tibet right behind the tanks and soldiers that conquered it

Or "re-asserted rightful control" over the region

[jimmy olsen]

That's armed invasion on a totally different level.

Tibetans would disagree

Of course.  But any impartial observer should see the difference between Japanese conquest of Manchuria and Hans moving to Tibet.  It is just as absurd to compare Operation Barbarossa with US Manifest Destiny.

Indeed, after all, Manifest Destiny and the conquest of Tiet are success stories while the Japanese colonization of Manchuria was a dismal failure.

[Monoriu]

Actually this again illustrates a difference in point of view.  China, including its government and people, rarely feel sympathy for separatist movements anywhere in the world. 

[Josquius]

I saw this ages ago and felt it to be a pretty good summary of China, fits in with a lot of what people are saying but in other ways...nto so much:

http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2008/06/18/292-china-as-an-island/

[grumbler]

I have found it interesting that the definition of "colonization" proposed by the radical Left has now become so accepted that people here are arguing that it is "surely" true... despite the fact that it does not involve "colonies" at all.

In the world of the less politically-inclined historians, "colonialism" refers to the establishment of colonies (ie subordinate geographic and political entities which may or may not be expected to go off on their own, like Carthage).  National expansion (like "Drang Nach Osten,""manifest destiny" or the current Han efforts in Tibet) is national expansion, and the areas being expanded into are not colonies, but national territory.

To the hard Left, of course, just about any injustice is "colonialism."  The failure of the US government to rescue and stabilize Detroit is "colonialism" to many ardent Leftists.

[Malthus]

The unity of China is an interesting thing.  As I understand it, it's spent as much time fractured (various rival dynasties, Three Kingdoms, Warring States and various periods where significant parts of the country was de facto ruled by various warlords) as a unitary state.

On a related note, many of the people who are now considered Han were not considered that previously.  The significant differences in language groups is another indicator that it's not accurate to think of "Han China" as a monolithic group.

Han Chinese are not a wholly "monolithic" group, but they are certainly more "monolithic" than "Europeans". Chinese folks opf the majority (Han) ethnicity certainly consider themselves as different from other folk, and more similar to each other in spite of regional dialects.

It is notable that China proper contains many minority ethnic groups that are not Han. These are the remnants of the pre-Han peoples who have survived incorporation by the Han.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_minorities_in_China

The Chinese have a concept for "china-ness" that transcends purely Han ethnicity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhonghua_Minzu