Anti-Minaret Online Referendum

[Martinus]

Yeah but then I get the same idea when listening to Christians or Mormons, too.

If you are under the impression I like Mormons and Fundamentalist Christians you obviously have never read a post I have ever written.  I actively dislike those groups because they have serious negative impacts on my country.  Muslims are few and amusing and nothing else....so pointing this out makes no sense to me.

Ok I am not sure what point you were making. I thought your point was that "Muslims are weird". I countered by saying Christians are weird too.

[Valmy]

Actually, even on its own I don't get the point of said anecdote. Some of the hipsters who hang out at the coffeeshop across the street are decent people although I've noticed that some have these strange beliefs about authenticity. Yay?

And if we were talking about hipsters in coffeeshops and you brought up these strange beliefs...wouldn't that fit in fine with the conversation?

[Valmy]

Ok I am not sure what point you were making. I thought your point was that "Muslims are weird". I countered by saying Christians are weird too.

Well what was Dick's point pointing out that the Muslims he knows are better hardworking people than the natives he knows?  I said my experience was basically the same and then it reminded me of some bizarre experiences I had with them.  I thought it was just that...a bizarre conversation (or rather series of them).  I would certainly not hesitate bringing up similar anecdotes about others people I know.

Besides how is pointing out Christians are weird a counter to anything?  I never said they weren't.  I find it rather hilarious you, of all people, are upset I said I think Muslims I know are great but sometimes they believe wacky things while YOU on the other hand regularly attack all relgious people are evil or worse.

[Martinus]

Well, the conversation went:

Dick: Muslims are hardworking.
Valmy: But Muslims are also weird.
Me: But Christians are also weird.
Valmy: How is it relevant?

[Solmyr]

Dude, you are a freaking Russian. If there is a country or civilization that is more hostile, alien and in a direct conflict with Western values than the Muslim one, it's Russia.

I'm about as Russian as you are German.

[Mr.Penguin]

Dude, you are a freaking Russian. If there is a country or civilization that is more hostile, alien and in a direct conflict with Western values than the Muslim one, it's Russia.

I'm about as Russian as you are German.

Shit, we also have Krauts here...

[derspiess]

There's no "we" here.  Your country was sending nobody to colonize anything.

I believe they colonized Chicago.

[Warspite]

Yeah.  A problem I always have when people bemoan the lack of moderate Muslims is that I think 'well I know the moderate Muslims.  I went for a coffee with one of them last week.'  So yeah I find it difficult to reconcile too.

I'm starting to hate the phrase "moderate Muslim". I sure as hell wouldn't want to be called a "moderate Catholic". Can't we just call them Brits?

[Valmy]

Well, the conversation went:

Dick: Muslims are hardworking.
Valmy: But Muslims are also weird.
Me: But Christians are also weird.
Valmy: How is it relevant?

You tell me.  How is other people being weird counter or contribute at all to some other people being weird?  Besides I only mentioned this one small group of people I personally know and the discussion simply reminded me of it and I said I doubt they are typical of the average Muslim.  I mean most people are not well read on western philosophy even westerners.

'I saw this light show the other day, it was bizarre they used so much blue'

'but my shoes are also blue!'

....so?

[Eddie Teach]

I'm starting to hate the phrase "moderate Muslim". I sure as hell wouldn't want to be called a "moderate Catholic". Can't we just call them Brits?

Are you a real Catholic, or a CDM/Martinus Catholic?

[Admiral Yi]

I'm starting to hate the phrase "moderate Muslim". I sure as hell wouldn't want to be called a "moderate Catholic". Can't we just call them Brits?

What purpose would that serve?

In the States at least it would make sense to refer to someone as a pro-choice Catholic or a progressive Catholic.

[garbon]

And if we were talking about hipsters in coffeeshops and you brought up these strange beliefs...wouldn't that fit in fine with the conversation?

Everyone is supposed to hate hipsters.

Actually I don't know what purpose it would serve. Like I said there is also some sub-group of a larger group that is weird. Who cares?  Or as I'll repeat again, what was the purpose of your anecdote?

[Neil]

Ok I am not sure what point you were making. I thought your point was that "Muslims are weird". I countered by saying Christians are weird too.

Except not, because Christians are us.

[dps]

Bravo to Switzerland. Way to show that Europe has less religious tolerance than America.

Not a bit of a surprise to me.  Europe is to the left of America politically, and it's pretty obvious that there is a significant minority on the left that thinks that freedom of speach, conscience, etc., only means freedom for those who think like them.

What the fuck are you talking about? The right wing parties supported the ban and the left wing parties opposed it - and it's the same situation vis-a-vis immigration and Muslim freedom of religion in pretty much all of Europe. So how the fuck is this a "left wing issue"?

Look at people like Grallon who have posted here in favor of the ban.  Are you claiming that he's a right-winger?  Grallon?  Granted, he's not a Euro, but he's certainly on the left.

Besides, I've already stated that my post was poorly worded.  Basically, I was just pointing out that people on the left can be just as intolerant as people on the right.

[Fate]

Bravo to Switzerland. Way to show that Europe has less religious tolerance than America.

Not a bit of a surprise to me.  Europe is to the left of America politically, and it's pretty obvious that there is a significant minority on the left that thinks that freedom of speach, conscience, etc., only means freedom for those who think like them.

What the fuck are you talking about? The right wing parties supported the ban and the left wing parties opposed it - and it's the same situation vis-a-vis immigration and Muslim freedom of religion in pretty much all of Europe. So how the fuck is this a "left wing issue"?

Look at people like Grallon who have posted here in favor of the ban.  Are you claiming that he's a right-winger?  Grallon?  Granted, he's not a Euro, but he's certainly on the left.

Besides, I've already stated that my post was poorly worded.  Basically, I was just pointing out that people on the left can be just as intolerant as people on the right.

I don't know what Grallon is. He holds conservative views on immigration. However, the political parties supporting the minaret ban in Switerzland were right wing and predominately rural.