Immigration Reform not happening under Obama

[Capetan Mihali]

Why doesn't anyone care about emigration reform anymore?    During the Bush years it was a priority.  Someone needs to streamline the process of fleeing this horrible country for Canada or Denmark or wherever.

[Barrister]

I still don't see the point in the pissing match because the bottom line is that all 3 countries take in lots of immigrants.

Indeed - have to ask BB about that one. Apparently it is really important though, since he was willing to be rather insulting about it.

Let's backtrack a bit, shall we?

This all started with:

The US takes in a large number of legal immigrants every year.

I replied saying, well, not really, Canada and Australia take in more per capita.

And all of the numbers people have pulled up have born out that assertion.  From my wiki statistics, to the percentage foreign born, to the CIA fact sheet, all have Australia and Canada taking in more people.

I certainly don't think that citing statistics means engaging in a 'pissing match'.  As I said I don't have any horse in thie race.  But this isn't a matter of quibbling over a few decimal places.  Australia in particular, taking those CIA statistics, takes in 50% more immigrants than the US does, on a per capita basis.   Canada takes in around 30% more immigrants, per capita.

In formulating an immigration policy in the US, before you just assume you're already taking in a large number of immigrants, it might be nice to consider some context.  The argument can be made that the US could or even should be admitting a lot more legal immigrants.

I don't think I've been insulting, and that wasn't my intent to do so.

What I did say was:

Your post is so full of fury I'm not actually sure what you're trying to say.

I'll plead guilty to a misdemeanour ad hom - this is Languish after all.  But I was honestly confused what it was you were attacking.  And I didn't see that comment as an insult.  If you found it insulting I will humbly apologize and ask to retract the offending statement. 

[Eddie Teach]

I replied saying, well, not really,

Would you say that Canada has a high per capita gnp?

[The Minsky Moment]

Let's backtrack a bit, shall we?

This all started with:

The US takes in a large number of legal immigrants every year.

I replied saying, well, not really, Canada and Australia take in more per capita.

The problem is with the "not really"

The US does take in a large number of immigrants.  That fact that two other countries who also take in a large number of immigrants happen to take in more per capita doesn't belie that.

[Barrister]

The problem is with the "not really"

The US does take in a large number of immigrants.  That fact that two other countries who also take in a large number of immigrants happen to take in more per capita doesn't belie that.

Well now we're talking about general worlds like large, small, lots, few, which can't be quantified.  I'm not sure than I agree that the US takes in a large number, but you can't win or lose that debate.

How about this - the US takes in fewer legal immigrants than people realize...

[The Minsky Moment]

How about this - the US takes in fewer legal immigrants than people realize...

But that is a claim about popular perception, which can only be verified through survey data.   

[Eddie Teach]

How about this - the US takes in fewer legal immigrants than people realize...

More like, "We beat the USA at something! "

Considering that we have a higher per capita foreign born population than EU countries which include semi-internal migrations from one member state to another, it's hard to make a claim that the US does not have high immigration.

[Barrister]

How about this - the US takes in fewer legal immigrants than people realize...

More like, "We beat the USA at something! "

Considering that we have a higher per capita foreign born population than EU countries which include semi-internal migrations from one member state to another, it's hard to make a claim that the US does not have high immigration.

I think Canada should probable take in fewer immigrants.   

European states don't have a long history or tradition of immigration, so comoparisons between Europe and the US aren't as revealing as between the US and other developed "new world" countries.

[Eddie Teach]

Cherry-picking two considerably lower populated countries that have higher per capita immigration than the US isn't particularly revealing of anything either.

[Berkut]

The US brings in large numbers of immigrants. In fact, the US brings in more than any other country in the world, and has been doing so for probably over 100 years.

They may not bring in as many per capita as some countries, but since comparisons on a per capita basis are to no purpose other than making some other countries feel better about themselves, it isn't really an interesting metric. Raw numbers are much more telling - especially if you happen to be someone looking to emigrate.

[DontSayBanana]

Uh, can any one of you point me to where immigration should be proportional from country to country?  Different economies, different rights and privileges for guest workers and other non-citizens, not to mention differing conditions in immigrants' home countries (I'd assume countries with a more volatile climate would produce more emigrants, who also wouldn't go as far)....

[Barrister]

They may not bring in as many per capita as some countries, but since comparisons on a per capita basis are to no purpose other than making some other countries feel better about themselves,

You're the only one putting a value judgement on whether a high number is good or bad.

[Berkut]

They may not bring in as many per capita as some countries, but since comparisons on a per capita basis are to no purpose other than making some other countries feel better about themselves,

You're the only one putting a value judgement on whether a high number is good or bad.

No, actually that would be you and your "The US doesn't really allow all that much immigration...." despite the fact that we have more immigration yearly than any other country by a large margin, and more historically than any other country by an even larger margin.

*You* are the one who has felt the need to dispute this - I am not really sure why.

[Ed Anger]

America sucks.

[Caliga]

America sucks.

Agreed.  Let's just give up and throw the borders wide open.