Roman Polanski arrested in Zürich

[Malthus]

I think the comment from the French official about how this illustrates the "two sides of America" was pretty ironic, since from here it indicates exactly the same thing about France.

Seems like a nice country...that harbors kiddy rapists.

I am suddenly very uncomfortable with the way this thread is going.

I mean surely there is somebody in France glad to see that rapist dude arrested.

I have no idea what the average person there thinks of the matter. So far, all I've heard is the articles written by film types and politicians - who seem to shrug it off as a mild misdeed in his past and an example of American hysteria over sex.

To my mind, such a reaction is frankly bizzare. It is true that we in North America have greater hang-ups about sex and sexual misconduct - whenever a public figure is caught with his (or her) pants down, it ignites a shit-storm. But that is over sex that is consentual. It isn't a "hang up' to have strong dissaproval of, and prosecution of, sex that is non-consentual.

[Eddie Teach]

Sure they are important - drugging the girl makes his behaviour the more reprehensible.

I really don't see that. It's kind of like saying purposefully running someone over in a stolen car is worse than doing it in your own car.

She knew she was taking the drugs. If they had actually had the intended effect of making her open to sex with him, that would have been a considerably lesser offense than what ended up happening.

[Valmy]

I have no idea what the average person there thinks of the matter. So far, all I've heard is the articles written by film types and politicians - who seem to shrug it off as a mild misdeed in his past and an example of American hysteria over sex.

To my mind, such a reaction is frankly bizzare. It is true that we in North America have greater hang-ups about sex and sexual misconduct - whenever a public figure is caught with his (or her) pants down, it ignites a shit-storm. But that is over sex that is consentual. It isn't a "hang up' to have strong dissaproval of, and prosecution of, sex that is non-consentual.

Precisely.  I just do not get it.  It is not like we are tracking him down for something he didn't do or something that would not also be illegal in France or whatever so the comparisons with Oscar Wilde and Alfred Dreyfus are bizarre.

[Malthus]

Sure they are important - drugging the girl makes his behaviour the more reprehensible.

I really don't see that. It's kind of like saying purposefully running someone over in a stolen car is worse than doing it in your own car.

She knew she was taking the drugs. If they had actually had the intended effect of making her open to sex with him, that would have been a considerably lesser offense than what ended up happening.

I disagree. Giving illegal drugs (and booze) to minors is an offence unto itself - for one, exactly because it is sometimes used as a tool for 'seduction' of this sort. To my mind it exacerbates the offense of sexual assault, indicating that the offense was premeditated and planned.

I'll leave it to our expert (BB) to opine on this.

[Berkut]

Sure they are important - drugging the girl makes his behaviour the more reprehensible.

I really don't see that. It's kind of like saying purposefully running someone over in a stolen car is worse than doing it in your own car.

She knew she was taking the drugs. If they had actually had the intended effect of making her open to sex with him, that would have been a considerably lesser offense than what ended up happening.

She was thirteen years old.

I don't care if she fucking BEGGED for the drugs, which she did not.

[grumbler]

Sure they are important - drugging the girl makes his behaviour the more reprehensible.

I really don't see that. It's kind of like saying purposefully running someone over in a stolen car is worse than doing it in your own car.

She knew she was taking the drugs. If they had actually had the intended effect of making her open to sex with him, that would have been a considerably lesser offense than what ended up happening.

I agree that the drugs make the behavior more obviously criminal, but not more "reprehensible" per se (though I am not sure it could be more reprehensible). I vehemently disagree that her knowledge that she was taking some drugs excuses his behavior in any way.  She was not adult enough to be responsible for the consequences of her actions.  Polanski could not obtain any more consent from a drugged 13-year-old than he could from a non-drugged 13-year-old.

[Josephus]

I can't believe we're having an 18-page discussion on this. I guess that's Languish for you.

The guy gave drugs to a 13-year-old girl, had sex with her and sodomized her. he admitted he did.


I don't think we need BB or anyone else with a law degree to "opine" on this at all. It's not a matter of whether he's guilty or not. But he needs to stand trial.

[Berkut]

Sure they are important - drugging the girl makes his behaviour the more reprehensible.

I really don't see that. It's kind of like saying purposefully running someone over in a stolen car is worse than doing it in your own car.

She knew she was taking the drugs. If they had actually had the intended effect of making her open to sex with him, that would have been a considerably lesser offense than what ended up happening.

I agree that the drugs make the behavior more obviously criminal, but not more "reprehensible" per se (though I am not sure it could be more reprehensible). I vehemently disagree that her knowledge that she was taking some drugs excuses his behavior in any way.  She was not adult enough to be responsible for the consequences of her actions.  Polanski could not obtain any more consent from a drugged 13-year-old than he could from a non-drugged 13-year-old.

...and of course, he didn't obtain any consent at all, even after he drugged her. She repeatedly told him "no", and he decided to stick his dick in her ass anyway.

Christ, I am simply *amazed* that I am here arguing this - how can anyone possibly defend, excuse, or even attempt to mitigate this?

If the judge in question did anything wrong, it was considering the idea that it would be ok to let someone server a month and a half for the crime of drugging and raping a 13 year old.

[Martinus]

Well it's not like I'm saying he did nothing wrong but saying that he "drugged and raped a child" is a fucking hell of an overreaction. The girl was not a virgin at the time and she was being pimped out by her mother to be a startlet. I don't think any party involved had any doubts as to what will happen if they live a 40 y.o. director with a teenage girl seeking an "audition" in a huge empty villa with a swimming pool, a jacuzzi and a well stocked bar.

He should answer for having sex with an underaged girl, but you make it sound like he picked and drugged some innocent girl from a school playground and then had his way with her.

Since she wasn't a virgin, that makes it all okay? Because her mother let her go, that makes it all okay?

Read this then tell me he didn't drug and rape a child:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/polanskicover1.html

I didn't say it makes it ok. I just thought that your words mis-characterized what happened. However, I wasn't aware of the facts and the testimony of the girl, so I withdraw my objections.

[Martinus]

and yet she (the victim... the only person harmed by Polanski in this scenario) denies any harm being done. She has to continually relive all this shit... at least now that he's arrested and likely to get a worse sentence than any other rapist maybe that will be over for her? Nope. She still has to live with it.

I think on any 30 year old warrant there is pause to be given to make sure that after all this time, things are still wrapped up correctly. I'm not saying he shouldn't do time. But If it was something that was important to anyone they could have caught him any time they really wanted over the years. Why now?

Are US law enforcement so incompetent that they can't catch a famous movie Director/star whose whereabouts are always known?

Bah. too bad this isn't actually about the crime committed. I noticed too that Marc Emery is finally surrendering for extradition. Maybe it's more to do with USA flexing it's muscles in areas that they feel comfortable. Canada & Switzerland. Wow good job catching those guys who pled guilty.

So you're saying this should just be forgotten? He drugged and raped a child, and it should just be... forgotten. Because he had the fortitude to stay out of the States for 30 years?

Maybe it could have been done sooner. Maybe they should have tried harder. But the reality is that he did the crime and should pay the time. I feel for the child/woman, but as you said, she's going to have to live with this forever regardless of what happens.

Well it's not like I'm saying he did nothing wrong but saying that he "drugged and raped a child" is a fucking hell of an overreaction. The girl was not a virgin at the time and she was being pimped out by her mother to be a startlet. I don't think any party involved had any doubts as to what will happen if they live a 40 y.o. director with a teenage girl seeking an "audition" in a huge empty villa with a swimming pool, a jacuzzi and a well stocked bar.

He should answer for having sex with an underaged girl, but you make it sound like he picked and drugged some innocent girl from a school playground and then had his way with her.

What  load of horseshit.

The girl told him "no" over and over again, he raped her. It doesn't matter what her mom thought, or whether she was a virgin (she was), or anything else.

Jesus, I cannot believe people will actually try to justify and excuse someone drugging a raping a child. Well, I guess it is Marty, but still.

Well, I was misinformed.

[Eddie Teach]

Stealing a car is illegal; it's just a less serious crime than killing a person with a car. I'm not excusing the guy at all. I just don't get the fixation with the drugs.

[Martinus]

I wish I could say that this was a case of "the usual suspects" on Languish talking "their usual schtick" but I really wonder if Marti has thought through the implications of his apparent belief that raping non-virgins isn't an offense to be outraged over, and that the tacit consent of mother converts a rape into something we shouldn't be concerned about.

I echo the sentiment:  "Marti, are you sure you still want to claim you are a lawyer?"

I was wrong, ok? I had a totally wrong understanding of the case, because that's how it has been presented/implied by the Polish media and all the fuckers who defended him.

[Valmy]

I was wrong, ok? I had a totally wrong understanding of the case, because that's how it has been presented/implied by the Polish media and all the fuckers who defended him.

This has always been a big reason with why public opinion in the US and Euroland are so different on alot of issues.  The media in both places spin things in opposite directions.  It gets really frustrating at times as both sides come to an issue with completely different...um..."facts".

[Razgovory]

Stealing a car is illegal; it's just a less serious crime than killing a person with a car. I'm not excusing the guy at all. I just don't get the fixation with the drugs.

It shows malice of forethought, also makes the situation a forceable rape.

[derspiess]

The girl was not a virgin at the time

Wow.  Just.... wow.