Stalin's bid for a new world order (BBC on the Nazi-Soviet Pact)

Started by Alatriste, August 25, 2009, 05:33:59 AM

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Berkut

Quote from: Alatriste on August 26, 2009, 01:46:55 AM
Quote from: Ancient Demon on August 25, 2009, 07:46:35 PM
There isn't anything in that article I consider surprising. It's the most intuitive explanation availiable.

The only thing mildly surprising IMHO is that Stalin apparently believed France and Britain would win the war easily if the USSR didn't help Germany, i.e. that he didn't sign the Pact because he feared Germany and felt Russia needed to buy time, but because he wanted all the 'capitalist powers' to exhaust themselves and believed Germany would be far too weak for that without Soviet help.

Yeah, that was the only surprising part to me as well - although it does nicely explain his later refusal to believe that Germany would attack him, or even that Germany was any kind of short or medium term threat.

He simply underestimated their strength.
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Berkut

Quote from: Valmy on August 26, 2009, 08:29:51 AM
  That and the French people were not enthusiastic about another war to say the least.

I generally agree with Shelfs and Allys assessment (not that that stops me from poking fun at the French anyway), but would add to your comment that you could hardly blame for whatever lack of interest in another major war that you can fairly pin on them.

It's not like "winning" WW1 worked out all that well for them.
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derspiess

Quote from: grumbler on August 26, 2009, 05:36:09 AM
The real question is why Stalin didn't re-evaluate the chances of Germany attacking the USSR after the fall of France.

Seems like his personality was such that he didn't re-evaluate anything until he got his own nose bloodied.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Zoupa


Valmy

Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Zoupa

Quote from: Valmy on August 26, 2009, 10:52:36 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on August 26, 2009, 10:48:30 AM
I blame Wilson.  -_-

We should have elected TR in 1912.

Would he have let us carve up the Huns into a bunch of different states?

Valmy

Quote from: Zoupa on August 26, 2009, 10:57:36 AM
Would he have let us carve up the Huns into a bunch of different states?

Maybe.  He for sure would have made sure we entered the war years earlier.  Electing Wilson probably saved the US hundreds of thousands of lives actually.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."