The Wide, Wide World of Apple

Started by Barrister, August 24, 2009, 01:50:38 PM

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viper37

I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Berkut

I was looking at the MacBook Pro today before I stomped out of Best Buy and swore never to buy from them again.

But I realized that the main reason I will never buy a mac is the realization that however good they are, their price reflects a significant markup based on the fanaticism of a large group of irrational consumers, who will pay a premium for the logo that has no bearing on the actual value of the product.

Assuming Apple has a brain (and there is no doubt that in addition to be very good engineers, Apple understands their slavish market drones very, very well) then they are going to markup their products in order to harvest that market segment. Therefore, I have to be willing to pay that premium, even if I don't share the irrationality.

But their is no question that the absolute quality of their products overall is very high.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Barrister

Quote from: Berkut on May 24, 2011, 03:22:16 PM
I was looking at the MacBook Pro today before I stomped out of Best Buy and swore never to buy from them again.

But I realized that the main reason I will never buy a mac is the realization that however good they are, their price reflects a significant markup based on the fanaticism of a large group of irrational consumers, who will pay a premium for the logo that has no bearing on the actual value of the product.

Assuming Apple has a brain (and there is no doubt that in addition to be very good engineers, Apple understands their slavish market drones very, very well) then they are going to markup their products in order to harvest that market segment. Therefore, I have to be willing to pay that premium, even if I don't share the irrationality.

But their is no question that the absolute quality of their products overall is very high.

Berkut - try pricing out a laptop with identical specs to the MacBook Pro.  I predict you will find it is priced competitively.  The laptops you can find for half price or some such are skimping on some significant areas.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

derspiess

Quote from: Barrister on May 24, 2011, 03:34:36 PM
The laptops you can find for half price or some such are skimping on some significant areas.

You say the others are 'skimping'-- I say Apple is goldbricking :contract:
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Barrister

Quote from: derspiess on May 24, 2011, 05:02:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 24, 2011, 03:34:36 PM
The laptops you can find for half price or some such are skimping on some significant areas.

You say the others are 'skimping'-- I say Apple is goldbricking :contract:

:huh:

Not a term I'm familiar with - and google says it's a term for goofing off while working.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

garbon

Quote from: Barrister on May 24, 2011, 05:05:00 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 24, 2011, 05:02:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 24, 2011, 03:34:36 PM
The laptops you can find for half price or some such are skimping on some significant areas.

You say the others are 'skimping'-- I say Apple is goldbricking :contract:

:huh:

Not a term I'm familiar with - and google says it's a term for goofing off while working.

To cheat; swindle.

A similar thought although not sure it is what he meant - selling gold bricks as the base level when standard bricks would work just as well for masonry work.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Berkut

Quote from: Barrister on May 24, 2011, 03:34:36 PM
Quote from: Berkut on May 24, 2011, 03:22:16 PM
I was looking at the MacBook Pro today before I stomped out of Best Buy and swore never to buy from them again.

But I realized that the main reason I will never buy a mac is the realization that however good they are, their price reflects a significant markup based on the fanaticism of a large group of irrational consumers, who will pay a premium for the logo that has no bearing on the actual value of the product.

Assuming Apple has a brain (and there is no doubt that in addition to be very good engineers, Apple understands their slavish market drones very, very well) then they are going to markup their products in order to harvest that market segment. Therefore, I have to be willing to pay that premium, even if I don't share the irrationality.

But their is no question that the absolute quality of their products overall is very high.

Berkut - try pricing out a laptop with identical specs to the MacBook Pro.  I predict you will find it is priced competitively.  The laptops you can find for half price or some such are skimping on some significant areas.

So you are arguing that Apple is foolish and is not willing to charge its loyal followers what they are willing to pay for the "Apple premium"? That strikes me as rather unlikely.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

select * from users where clue > 0
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Barrister

Quote from: Berkut on May 24, 2011, 05:23:21 PM
So you are arguing that Apple is foolish and is not willing to charge its loyal followers what they are willing to pay for the "Apple premium"? That strikes me as rather unlikely.

Are you putting words in my mouth? :unsure:

I am arguing that in order to keep prices (and margins) high Apple only manufactures high end computers, but that their computers are cost competitive (at least upon initial release) with similarily equipped computers from rival manufacturers.

Toshiba or Dell will sell you a laptop that is just as nice, and just as expensive, as any that Apple put out.  But Dell or Toshiba wil also sell you a cheaper laptop that is not as nice, whereas Apple (in order to both keep their brand image high, and to upsell users) will not sell a less nice, less expensive laptop.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

katmai

Working with new 17inch MacBook on job. It is fun
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son

DontSayBanana

Quote from: katmai on May 24, 2011, 09:30:22 PM
Working with new 17inch MacBook on job. It is fun

Off-topic, but I've been wanting to ask... you work with any crews running AutoDesk Flame?
Experience bij!

katmai

No idea, would have to ask editors, I just film shit.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son

derspiess

Quote from: garbon on May 24, 2011, 05:13:38 PM
A similar thought although not sure it is what he meant - selling gold bricks as the base level when standard bricks would work just as well for masonry work.

This is actually what I meant.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Baron von Schtinkenbutt

Quote from: Barrister on May 24, 2011, 05:32:14 PM
I am arguing that in order to keep prices (and margins) high Apple only manufactures high end computers, but that their computers are cost competitive (at least upon initial release) with similarily equipped computers from rival manufacturers.

Toshiba or Dell will sell you a laptop that is just as nice, and just as expensive, as any that Apple put out.  But Dell or Toshiba wil also sell you a cheaper laptop that is not as nice, whereas Apple (in order to both keep their brand image high, and to upsell users) will not sell a less nice, less expensive laptop.

I just priced the Dell equivalents to the 17" Macbook Pro, single-processor Mac Pro, and dual processor Mac Pro.

For identical configurations*:

17" Macbook Pro - $2499
Dell Precision M6600 - $2095

Mac Pro (UP) - $2499
Dell Precision T3500 - $1535

Mac Pro (DP) - $3499
Dell Precision T5500 - $2655

On the workstations, I can beat even Dell's prices by quite a bit building it myself.

* On the dual-processor machine, Dell does not offer the quad-core Nehalem, so the Dell is configured with 2 2.4GHz six-core Westmere-EPs, which is a configuration Apple does not offer.

derspiess

Wow, dual processors w/ 6 cores each?  Are they also hyperthreaded? :)
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Baron von Schtinkenbutt

Quote from: derspiess on May 27, 2011, 09:47:03 AM
Wow, dual processors w/ 6 cores each?  Are they also hyperthreaded? :)

The Sandy Bridge chips are the only non-integrated chips Intel is producing right now that do not have (in some models) hardware threads.

Pricing the parts out is really giving me an itch to build a Bloomfield-based Nehalem workstation, too. :P