The Wide, Wide World of Apple

[garbon]

$400 for something with such little utility? That's overpriced in my opinion.

[Barrister]

$400 for something with such little utility? That's overpriced in my opinion.

It's a rather poor way of analyzing a cost.

You could argue that a BMW is grossly overpriced because you can get the same utility from a Hyundai.  That ignroes the fact that there are significant differences between the Hyundai and the BMW that can justify the higher price.

[garbon]

Except that an iPad has fewer features than a typical laptop or netbook.

[derspiess]

For someone with a very specific set of 'needs' and/or just has to have it because of the logo, the iPad might be worth it.  But for myself and I would think a majority of the tech market, it's tough to see the value proposition.  At those price points ($499 to $850), the device falls way short of what a netbook or laptop can do. 

That goes for tablet-type devices in general, but even if you decide a tablet is worth your money, how can you logically choose an iPad over something like the Archos 9, which for $550 gives you: a full OS (Win7), your choice of web browser with (gasp) Flash support, expandable storage, USB, 1080p video, 16x9 aspect ratio, etc., etc.

https://store.archos.com/product_info.php?language=en

The market will decide, of course, but I think this is going to end up a "hobby" product like the AppleTV rather than a game-changer like the iPhone was.

[Barrister]

Archos 9 - you do note it has half the battery life, right?  and 9.7" vs 8.9"  And for the same price?

Have trouble caring about the choice of web browser, a "full OS" (you're not going to be running 'full' aps on it anyways, 16x9, or 1080p output (why would you output video from it anyways)?

The one potential killer is Flash.  I thought about buying my wife an iPad, as I think it would be great for what she uses a laptop for (and she hates our current Dell).  The one potential issue is she sometimes likes playing Flash games.

So the question is - does something like the Archos get acceptable Flash performance?  Supposedly the reason (or one of the reasons) Apple hasn't introduced Flash onto iPhone/iPad is not because it's impossible, but because it gives shitty results with crappy battery life.

[derspiess]

Archos 9 - you do note it has half the battery life, right?

Yeah.  Wouldn't be a deal killer for me, though.  It's not like I'd be out walking around for 9 hours with one of these things.  For me it would be a living room device, and I wouldn't mind having to plug it in from time to time.

and 9.7" vs 8.9"  And for the same price?

Wow, a whole .8" difference.  I'd give up that .8" to have a sleeker 16x9 device that doesn't have the iPad's thick bezel.  Doing the math in my head, btw, most widescreen movies would end up the same size or bigger on the Archos.

Have trouble caring about the choice of web browser

Point is, you're not stuck with a smartphone browser.  You can run whatever browser you want, with plugins & whatnot.  Hell, you could even run the real Safari browser

a "full OS" (you're not going to be running 'full' aps on it anyways

You'll have to pick & choose, but you could absolutely run full apps-- pretty much whatever you would run on a netbook.

16x9

Fine, but you did mention movies earlier, and aspect ratio is a factor.

, or 1080p output (why would you output video from it anyways)?

Probably not something you'd use every day, but I think it's a cool feature if you're at a friend's house or hotel where there is an HDTV and you want to watch a movie.

The one potential killer is Flash.  I thought about buying my wife an iPad, as I think it would be great for what she uses a laptop for (and she hates our current Dell).  The one potential issue is she sometimes likes playing Flash games.

So the question is - does something like the Archos get acceptable Flash performance?  Supposedly the reason (or one of the reasons) Apple hasn't introduced Flash onto iPhone/iPad is not because it's impossible, but because it gives shitty results with crappy battery life.
[/quote]

[Valdemar]

  It's more a design / battery life decision that Apple made.

I'm sorry, but that is an extremely easy excuse, and one used soo much in various forms its almost ridiculous.

"Ofc we knew the customers wanted XX and of COURSE we can handle XX, we just CHOSE not to..."

WAD my ...

V

[MadImmortalMan]

$400 for something with such little utility? That's overpriced in my opinion.

It's a rather poor way of analyzing a cost.

You could argue that a BMW is grossly overpriced because you can get the same utility from a Hyundai.  That ignroes the fact that there are significant differences between the Hyundai and the BMW that can justify the higher price.

An Apple is not a BMW. It's a Hyundai with glitter on it.

[Zanza]

You could argue that a BMW is grossly overpriced because you can get the same utility from a Hyundai.  That ignroes the fact that there are significant differences between the Hyundai and the BMW that can justify the higher price.

The right choice would of course be a Mercedes.

[Iormlund]

It's a funny example, because precisely much of what you pay for when you get a German premium car is the badge. Just like it happens with Apple. Simply take a look at what a Series 1 (or a Mercedes equivalent) costs and what equipment you could get with the same money in an i30. Only a moron will get the "premium" car.

[Valdemar]

And now, apparently there is an Android based competitor to the Ipad, USB, multitasking, Flash all included:

http://www.neofonie.de/pdf/neofonie_Factsheet_WePad_english.pdf

V

[Caliga]

One of the main foci for my fun-investing has been with companies that build/lease cell tower infrastructure.

Interesting.  That's what my brother does for a living. 

[MadBurgerMaker]

It's a funny example, because precisely much of what you pay for when you get a German premium car is the badge. Just like it happens with Apple. Simply take a look at what a Series 1 (or a Mercedes equivalent) costs and what equipment you could get with the same money in an i30. Only a moron will get the "premium" car.

Do they sell really low quality BMWs/totally pimped out Hyundais there or something?  Because here, you can't get 1 Series type stuff in an Elantra no matter how much you want to fork over.  Hyundai does make the Genesis sedan, which is loaded with all kinds of goodies, but those carry a much heftier price tag (IIRC their starting prices are right around what the BMW 3 series starts at, so it comes down to what kind of car you want).

But yeah, you can get the same shit in a "PC" that you can in an Apple.

Edit:  They also seem to make a high end SUV.  I was playing around on their Build Your Own Vehicle thing, and ended up with a ~$40,000 SUV and ~$44,000 car.  Hyundai is a whole helluva lot different now vs. when I was growing up.   

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

Do they sell really low quality BMWs/totally pimped out Hyundais there or something?  Because here, you can't get 1 Series type stuff in an Elantra no matter how much you want to fork over.  Hyundai does make the Genesis sedan, which is loaded with all kinds of goodies, but those carry a much heftier price tag (IIRC their starting prices are right around what the BMW 3 series starts at, so it comes down to what kind of car you want).

But yeah, you can get the same shit in a "PC" that you can in an Apple.

Edit:  They also seem to make a high end SUV.  I was playing around on their Build Your Own Vehicle thing, and ended up with a ~$40,000 SUV and ~$44,000 car.  Hyundai is a whole helluva lot different now vs. when I was growing up.   

The Genesis is a 7 Series equivalent, though, which makes the price about half of the comparable BMW.

[MadBurgerMaker]

The Genesis is a 7 Series equivalent, though, which makes the price about half of the comparable BMW.

The physical size is the only thing that makes it comparable to a 7 (it's between a 5 and 7 IIRC).  The Genesis, while nice, shouldn't even be on the radar of someone who is looking at 7s, S class, Panameras, etc.  It's just a totally different class.  Instead, the Genesis goes directly after people who would buy "loaded" Maximas, Avalons, 300s, etc, in addition to being in the same price range as the 3, A4, C class,  G37, etc, to maybe snag someone from those types too.