Rick Perlstein on Right-Wing Retardation

[Ed Anger]

My favourite result is this one though:

Do you consider Hawaii to be part of the United
States? If yes, press 1. If no, press 2. If
you're not sure, press 3.
Yes ................................................................. 90%
No ................................................................... 6%
Not Sure.......................................................... 4%

It'll be a cold day in hell before I recognize Missorah!

[Admiral Yi]

That's true.  But I also think it's a few steps from that to accusations of Nazism and people carrying guns and 'kill Bush/Obama' signs, or talking about watering the liberty tree.

Sure.  And 40 million people talking about stealing an election is several orders of magnitude removed from 12 people with Obama Nazi posters.

[Sheilbh]

Sure.  And 40 million people talking about stealing an election is several orders of magnitude removed from 12 people with Obama Nazi posters.

Where are you getting 40 million from.

Anyway the 'stole the election' meme has some connection to reality it was the most contested election in history.  I think it covers a variety of options from crazy (Bush literally corrupted a US Federal election and actually stole it) to the respectable, if I disagree with them (Bush unfairly came into office) to something relatively assinine (Bush came to power in a result that's contested). 

It's like what you pointed out with the 'Bush knew about 9/11' question.  It isn't that useful because it covers everyone from the 'Bush did it' truthers to people who think they read somewhere that the CIA warned Bush about a forthcoming attack.

So do I think 40 million people thought Bush full on stole the election?  No.  I'm also not convinced that there were even 12 people making Nazi analogies or carrying the gun to the President's public appearances.

[Valmy]

Speaking of left wing 'tards, who is that 'Ed Show' fuck at MSNBC? Watching that fucker makes me want to vote for Hitler.

Intelligent people should not watch MSNBC.  You get stupider just having it watched somewhere in your neighborhood.

[Admiral Yi]

Where are you getting 40 million from.

I made it up.

[Valmy]

Sure.  And 40 million people talking about stealing an election is several orders of magnitude removed from 12 people with Obama Nazi posters.

Wow nice attempt at minimizing.  The Republican Vice Presidential candidate was out there babbing about insane conspiracy theories.

Just because there are nutty leftists doesn't mean stupid shit isn't being spewed from the mouths of people on the right.

[Admiral Yi]

Wow nice attempt at minimizing.  The Republican Vice Presidential candidate was out there babbing about insane conspiracy theories.

Just because there are nutty leftists doesn't mean stupid shit isn't being spewed from the mouths of people on the right.

Fair point.

However, as a minor digression I think to call the death panel opponents conspiracy theorists is somewhat inaccurate.  Conspiracies are secret.  AFAIK no one has suggested that Obama has a secret, unstated agenda to pull the plug on grandpa.  They just have it wrong.

[Sheilbh]

I made it up.

I've done some looking and around 59% of Americans and 50% of Democrats approved of the Supreme Court's handling of the 2000 election apparently.  Now that's an issue of opinion on which a number of views are entirely respectable.

On the subject of Barack Obama's birthplace, which is an issue of fact, only 62% of Americans and 36% of Republicans think he was born in the US.

Both those issues are, fundamentally, to do with the legitimacy of the President.  So I think some comparison can be useful.

[Sheilbh]

However, as a minor digression I think to call the death panel opponents conspiracy theorists is somewhat inaccurate.  Conspiracies are secret.  AFAIK no one has suggested that Obama has a secret, unstated agenda to pull the plug on grandpa.  They just have it wrong.

Yeah, it's untrue.  The problem I have is that Republican politicians, who surely must be aware that there's no truth to this seem willing to encourage talk about it and fears of it so that they can gee up opposition.  I think it's despicable.

[Berkut]

I've had my fill of leftist tripe. Being in the same county as Antioch College/Yellow Springs is painful.

You are only saying that because of the pain of 8 years of Bushitler crap.  The right wing douchebags have only begun to piss us off with their bullshit.

This. +1.

[Berkut]

This is much ado about very little.

Moveon.org is a couple of orders of magnitude greater in size and impact that the luny "liberty tree" nutjobs. They are getting lots of attention due to the nuttiness of their positions, and I would guess they are completely aware of that.

It is a bit sad that the ROTW will look at this and think "Gosh, the American right are all a bunch of raving lunatics!", since of course the media does not really bother to highlight the crazy left and pretend that it defines the left the way they do the right.

[Valmy]

Moveon.org is a couple of orders of magnitude greater in size and impact that the luny "liberty tree" nutjobs. They are getting lots of attention due to the nuttiness of their positions, and I would guess they are completely aware of that.

Well I hope you are right on that one.

It is a bit sad that the ROTW will look at this and think "Gosh, the American right are all a bunch of raving lunatics!", since of course the media does not really bother to highlight the crazy left and pretend that it defines the left the way they do the right.

Well maybe the right should get their party leaders to stop saying insane shit then eh?  Probably a good start if you do not want insane shit to define you.

[Sheilbh]

Moveon.org is a couple of orders of magnitude greater in size and impact that the luny "liberty tree" nutjobs. They are getting lots of attention due to the nuttiness of their positions, and I would guess they are completely aware of that.

Yeah, but Moveon.org is nowhere near as crazy.  I mean the most offensive thing I can think of is the General Betray Us ad.  When a political movements most distasteful moment is a pun I don't think they're that concerning.

Right now you have people worried that the opposite side want to mandatory euthanasia - and they are being encouraged in that belief by the people who should be the grown-ups, the party leadership.  By contrast I can't think of any Democrat who didn't condemn the Betray Us advert. 

And that's ignoring the gun and 'kill Obama' sign carrying liberty tree nuts and the birthers.  Both of whom have, of course, been disowned by most of the mainstream right which is entirely right. 

Edit:  Incidentally I think the reaction by the right to the shouting and anger shows how cynical the 'death panel' thing is.  I think the number of people who would support mandatory euthanasia is small.  I think if you really believed it was truly in this bill then you wouldn't worry about the optics of shouting people down, or civil disobedience.  This would be a moral crusade, and rightly so.

The actual behaviour of Republican leaders seems to suggest that they know it's not true and they're just using it as a tactical ploy to stop the bill from passing.  But that hasn't stopped them playing up the fears.

[Admiral Yi]

Yeah, it's untrue.  The problem I have is that Republican politicians, who surely must be aware that there's no truth to this seem willing to encourage talk about it and fears of it so that they can gee up opposition.  I think it's despicable.

To be fair, in that long list of quotes you provided earlier it wasn't clear whether the speakers were ginning up death panel fears or responding to requests for comments on the death panel phenomenon.  Except for Caribou Barbie.

Now Obama *could* take the tack of admitting that he raised a related issue previously, but it has since been dropped and guarantee that it won't be in any final bill, but he has opted for the easier path of telling people not to believe all those nasty lies.

[MadImmortalMan]

My favourite result is this one though:

Do you consider Hawaii to be part of the United
States? If yes, press 1. If no, press 2. If
you're not sure, press 3.
Yes ................................................................. 90%
No ................................................................... 6%
Not Sure.......................................................... 4%

You never know, those could be some of those hardcore Hawaiian supremacists/secessionists. 


You know who you are. Yeah, I'm gonna razorblade those sea turtle and flower petal bumper stickers off your car you polynesianazi.