Part Two: Russia takes on Ukraine (BB you will love this!)

[Barrister]

Ukraine needs to join NATO as soon as possible, get under the protective umbrella. Then maybe Poland, Romania, Baltic States and others of the former Eastern Block could go to Ukraine's aid, get some pay back on the Russkies! Then again, Russia should join NATO also; that'd be interesting.

No American blood for Eastern Europeans.

This is a good point.  While large parts of Eastern Europe are racially Russian (Poland, for example), the Ukraine has a huge community of Russian speakers that doesn't suffer any legal disadvantage.  At least the Balts have the good sense to make the Russians second-class citizens.

By admitting the Ukraine, we're putting allowing our enemies into the fold.

*cough*

[Neil]

*cough*

Are you soft on Russians?

[garbon]

Are you soft on Russians?

I think he is trying to claim that he is Ukrainian. As if.

[Martinus]

I think Ukraine's position is a bit precarious, though, if it tries to delve too much into "historical politics". This is because their anti-Russian history current is also anti-Polish and at least on its face pro-nazi, so they are not going to make any friends that way in Europe.

Maybe, but Europe doesn't really matter.  They can't provide anything for the Ukraine.  What they need is a bilateral security agreement with the US.

Like the Georgians allegedly had when Russian tanks started rolling in last year? Or the kind that Poles and Czechs had with the US until Obama started to renege on it?

Nah, Europe is exactly what Ukraine needs.

Russia knows how to deal with the US. To it, it is a fellow predator - one it can fight or flee - but one it can beat in its own field.

Europe, on the other hand, is an amorphous symbiont, something that Russia doesn't quite know how to approach. Sure, if Russia wants to go to war, then Europe won't be able to stop it, but to Russia Europe is much more beneficial alive and as a trading partner. So Russia won't call a bluff, unless it can isolate and devour a country, like it did with Georgia but won't try with, say, Baltics - because it is too far entangled with European webs to be able to move.

[Neil]

Like the Georgians allegedly had when Russian tanks started rolling in last year?

Was the US committed to defend the territorial integrity of Georgia?

Or the kind that Poles and Czechs had with the US until Obama started to renege on it?

It doesn't seem that Russia has gobbled up any Czech or Polish territory.

Nah, Europe is exactly what Ukraine needs.

Russia knows how to deal with the US. To it, it is a fellow predator - one it can fight or flee - but one it can beat in its own field.

Europe, on the other hand, is an amorphous symbiont, something that Russia doesn't quite know how to approach. Sure, if Russia wants to go to war, then Europe won't be able to stop it, but to Russia Europe is much more beneficial alive and as a trading partner. So Russia won't call a bluff, unless it can isolate and devour a country, like it did with Georgia but won't try with, say, Baltics - because it is too far entangled with European webs to be able to move.

Russia knows that Europe will do whatever it takes in order to avoid being cut off from the gas.  Therefore, Europe cannot guarantee the security of the Ukraine.

[derspiess]

I wonder if Obama would go so far as to reset the relations again, if it came down to that.

That's the beauty of the misspelled reset button.  You can push it as many times as you want!!

[derspiess]

Or the kind that Poles and Czechs had with the US until Obama started to renege on it?

I know you hate him because he abandoned gays, but watch the racist language 

[DGuller]

I wonder if Obama would go so far as to reset the relations again, if it came down to that.

That's the beauty of the misspelled reset button.  You can push it as many times as you want!!

As I said many times before, there was no good translation, and the one used was acceptable.  The Russian guy got it more wrong than the State Department, interestingly enough, probably because he wasn't computer-savvy.

[DGuller]

Although maybe by "overcharge" the Russian guy meant "overload", like 20 Ampere device in a 15 Ampere circuit kind of overload.  That's another valid translation of the word "peregruzka", which is very unfortunate.

[derspiess]

Although maybe by "overcharge" the Russian guy meant "overload", like 20 Ampere device in a 15 Ampere circuit kind of overload.  That's another valid translation of the word "peregruzka", which is very unfortunate.

I win