Nigerian Taliban goes nuts kills scores.

[Viking]

failure of the Iraq War

Saddam Hussein won?

No. He lost. I consider the Iraq War a failure because it failed to achieve it's declared objectives and/or failed to live up to my expectations.

Failure /= Losing

[Valmy]

No. He lost. I consider the Iraq War a failure because it failed to achieve it's declared objectives and/or failed to live up to my expectations.

It remains to be seen if it failed to achieve it's declared objectives (which you must admit were rather vague to begin with) but I can certainly see how it failed to live up to expectations.

The only way it could have ended interventionism seems to me because the US is busy in Iraq so therefore cannot do all the heavy lifting required...because with the Euros not wanting to put any money into their militaries any effective international intervention is really US intervention.

[Viking]

No. He lost. I consider the Iraq War a failure because it failed to achieve it's declared objectives and/or failed to live up to my expectations.

It remains to be seen if it failed to achieve it's declared objectives (which you must admit were rather vague to begin with) but I can certainly see how it failed to live up to expectations.

The only way it could have ended interventionism seems to me because the US is busy in Iraq so therefore cannot do all the heavy lifting required...because with the Euros not wanting to put any money into their militaries any effective international intervention is really US intervention.

September 2003 came and went and the US still hadn't left. But in terms of the article I quote the failure lies in the consensus in the West that nothing like this will be done again.

[Strix]

Even if we did care a great deal there is nothing really that can be done.  That is the main reason we try to avoid caring too much.

I disagree. There is a lot that can be done. The West is unwilling to do it. We have adopted a stick our heads in the sand and the danger will eventually go away attitude.

[Valmy]

I disagree. There is a lot that can be done. The West is unwilling to do it. We have adopted a stick our heads in the sand and the danger will eventually go away attitude.

Such as?

[Valmy]

September 2003 came and went and the US still hadn't left. But in terms of the article I quote the failure lies in the consensus in the West that nothing like this will be done again.

Well considering how damaging to western solidarity the whole lead up to the invasion was I doubt we could survive too many more things like that even if it had gone swimingly (but come now almost everybody predicted total disaster when we went in and it has so far only been a minor disaster).

[Strix]

I disagree. There is a lot that can be done. The West is unwilling to do it. We have adopted a stick our heads in the sand and the danger will eventually go away attitude.

Such as?

There is no point to listing the various options as the West is unable and unwilling to engage the enemy on their own terms. There is a great fear of losing the "moral" high ground to the terrorists and corrupt regimes around the world. Holding the "moral" high ground has resulted in ZERO accomplishment for the West.

[DisturbedPervert]

There were about 100 corpses. Most of them had gunshot wounds.

m-m-m--MONSTER KILL

[Valmy]

There is no point to listing the various options as the West is unable and unwilling to engage the enemy on their own terms. There is a great fear of losing the "moral" high ground to the terrorists and corrupt regimes around the world. Holding the "moral" high ground has resulted in ZERO accomplishment for the West.

Ok so my point stands.  As of right now there is nothing that can be done.

We can hope that somehow these issues in the Third World sort themselves out.  Anyway I am not so much worried about the danger to ourselves, because we can and have retaliated to that sort of thing, I am more concerned with them blowing the hell out of each other.

[MadImmortalMan]

No. He lost. I consider the Iraq War a failure because it failed to achieve it's declared objectives and/or failed to live up to my expectations.

Failure /= Losing

I consider WW2 a failure because Patton wasn't allowed to roll to Moscow.

[jimmy olsen]

No. He lost. I consider the Iraq War a failure because it failed to achieve it's declared objectives and/or failed to live up to my expectations.

It remains to be seen if it failed to achieve it's declared objectives (which you must admit were rather vague to begin with) but I can certainly see how it failed to live up to expectations.

The only way it could have ended interventionism seems to me because the US is busy in Iraq so therefore cannot do all the heavy lifting required...because with the Euros not wanting to put any money into their militaries any effective international intervention is really US intervention.

September 2003 came and went and the US still hadn't left. But in terms of the article I quote the failure lies in the consensus in the West that nothing like this will be done again.

Never again, really? A blanket statement like that just isn't credible.

[Viking]

No. He lost. I consider the Iraq War a failure because it failed to achieve it's declared objectives and/or failed to live up to my expectations.

It remains to be seen if it failed to achieve it's declared objectives (which you must admit were rather vague to begin with) but I can certainly see how it failed to live up to expectations.

The only way it could have ended interventionism seems to me because the US is busy in Iraq so therefore cannot do all the heavy lifting required...because with the Euros not wanting to put any money into their militaries any effective international intervention is really US intervention.

September 2003 came and went and the US still hadn't left. But in terms of the article I quote the failure lies in the consensus in the West that nothing like this will be done again.

Never again, really? A blanket statement like that just isn't credible.

"consensus in the West that..." not "that nothing like this will be done again." Any Western leaders suggesting any interventions?

[Berkut]

There is no point to listing the various options as the West is unable and unwilling to engage the enemy on their own terms. There is a great fear of losing the "moral" high ground to the terrorists and corrupt regimes around the world. Holding the "moral" high ground has resulted in ZERO accomplishment for the West.

Ok so my point stands.  As of right now there is nothing that can be done.

No, there is something that *can* be done, but there is nothing that anyone is willing to do. The failure is one of will, not one of capability.

[Valmy]

No, there is something that *can* be done, but there is nothing that anyone is willing to do. The failure is one of will, not one of capability.

Frankly I do not even see that going in and engaging the Talibans of the world in a worldwide bloody Jihad will really solve the problem much, presuming that is the sort of thing Strix has in mind.  If we were so inclined it would lead to us having to occupy and police even more territory and I don't see how it is a long term solution.

So yes something can be done, but is there something effective that can be done?

[Berkut]

That is half the problem though - people who exaggerate the problem way out of scale in order to conclude that it is hopeless and we cannot possibly do anything, so why bother?