Canada fights Euro ban

[Barrister]

With the Polar Bears dying out somebody has to kill the seals.

olar bears aren't dying.   

[viper37]

are we gonna raise the same stink if the USA finally bans polar bear pelts?

Polar bears have been classified has an endangered species, just like some species of whales the Euros are still hunting.
Just like some species of shark they are also hunting.
Seals however, are far from being endangered.

let the euros have their ban, and let's spend time on more substantive issues.

You fold on this, you'll be expected to fold on the next issue.
Besides, it's a huge part of the economy for the Maritimes region and they need it.  Unless you're suggesting we put all fishermen and hunters on wellfare, paid for by... ?

[crazy canuck]

With the Polar Bears dying out somebody has to kill the seals.

olar bears aren't dying.   

The Olars are already extinct.  Its the Polars we are worried about now.  Catch up!

[Valmy]

olar bears aren't dying.   

What?  On that show Planet Earth Sigourney Weaver told me the melting ice caps in the arctic were putting the Polar Bears in danger

I weeped and weeped for days in anguish.  'What have we done?  DEAR LORD WHAT HAVE WE HUMANS WROUGHT IN OUR ARROGANCE?!'

[viper37]

olar bears aren't dying.   

the population is not growing for the moment, and there are less then there used to be.

What?  On that show Planet Earth Sigourney Weaver told me the melting ice caps in the arctic were putting the Polar Bears in danger

I weeped and weeped for days in anguish.  'What have we done?  DEAR LORD WHAT HAVE WE HUMANS WROUGHT IN OUR ARROGANCE!'

there's less ice in the north, so their life is more difficult.  So right now, instead of growing the population is stable at about 25 000 bears.

As global warming keep affecting the north, it is expected that there will be a sharp decline in the coming years, and we already observe that they tend to have less cubs and be thinner then they should be.

[The Larch]

fashion fur is a fickle business. currently, it's only a heavily subsidized, $6 million export industry in decline, so Canada should not waste any political capital on this and concentrate on other fishery/ocean issues, such as Arctic sovereignity and heavy trawler bans.

I basically agree - there is no reason to subsidize the hunt, but the ban is pure bullshit.

its symbolic and cheap. the euros are banning it because the market has shifted. their constituents largely don't care for the hunt, so its easy political points for them.

I mean, we could fight it at WTO, but it won't change anything even if we won.  heck we could even ban imports of foie gras as a tit for tat move, but that'll never happen. are we gonna raise the same stink if the USA finally bans polar bear pelts?

let the euros have their ban, and let's spend time on more substantive issues.

I'm okay with throwing the Newfie seal hunters under the bus, but the seal ban also affects traditional Inuit hunters.  So fuck the euros.

Products from traditional hunts by indigenous peoples in Canada and Greenland will be exempt from the ban.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8171490.stm

[The Larch]

are we gonna raise the same stink if the USA finally bans polar bear pelts?

Polar bears have been classified has an endangered species, just like some species of whales the Euros are still hunting.
Just like some species of shark they are also hunting.
Seals however, are far from being endangered.

The trade is being banned on animal welfare grounds, not on conservational issues.

[crazy canuck]

The trade is being banned on animal welfare grounds, not on conservational issues.

Correct.  And so the minute the Euros ban all meat products I will start to take them seriously but at the moment this is purely a cynical move to gain easy support at the expense of the people trying to make a living in Canada's north.

[The Larch]

The trade is being banned on animal welfare grounds, not on conservational issues.

Correct.  And so the minute the Euros ban all meat products I will start to take them seriously but at the moment this is purely a cynical move to gain easy support at the expense of the people trying to make a living in Canada's north.

I guess it's the bludgeoning to death part they object to. There have been campaigns to get it banned for ages.

[Malthus]

The trade is being banned on animal welfare grounds, not on conservational issues.

Correct.  And so the minute the Euros ban all meat products I will start to take them seriously but at the moment this is purely a cynical move to gain easy support at the expense of the people trying to make a living in Canada's north.

I guess it's the bludgeoning to death part they object to. There have been campaigns to get it banned for ages.

Heh, Newfies hunting with clubs is horrible, but bullfighting is good clean family fun? 

[crazy canuck]

I guess it's the bludgeoning to death part they object to. There have been campaigns to get it banned for ages.

Yeah, and penning cows in feed lots their whole life, putting a bolt through their head and then slaughtering them is so much better.  The whole thing reeks of taking on an easy target to appease a hypocritical populous.

[viper37]

your tax dollars, not mine. go at 'er. they have ceased direct subsidies, but maintain other ways of keeping the industry viable.

Oil industry is subsidized, in Saskatchewan and Alberta, by generous tax credits from the Federal government, dating back to the Martin years.  Federal money = my tax dollars and yours.
Auto industry is subsidized.  Ferderal money = my tax dollars and yours too.

Seal hunting was never subsidized:
Myth #5: Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) provides subsidies for the seal hunt.

Reality: DFO does not subsidize the seal hunt. Sealing is an economically viable industry. All subsidies ceased in 2001. Before that time, any subsidies provided were for market and product development, including a meat subsidy, to encourage full use of the seal.

and seal hunting represents a sizable portion of the annual revenu for fishermens.  That helps reduce their dependancy to unemployment insurance or wellfare programs.  More money in our pockets.

there's other sources of omega 3. eat some flax.

yes, let's kille more of these endangered fishes out there!!
My point is that all parts of the seals are used, not just the fur.

your last point is a deliberate industry lie. according to DFO, the cod collapsed because of humans overfishing and its impacts. culling seals won't make a difference.

The cod collapsed because of:
a- over fishing
b- not hunting the seals
c- hunting the killer whales who ate the seals
d- hunting the great white shark who ate the seals
e- hunting the polar bears who ate the seals
f- other reduction of the seal hunters population

Yes, maybe culling the seal population won't help the cod to recover and eventually, it'll be extinct anyway.  But one thing is sure: if we let too many seals go on, there sure won't be any cod left by the time you & I die.

despite the euros thing, nothing stopping you from buying seal products is there? largely, Canadians are just *not* interested.

there is one reason why not many people do offer seal meat:
Montreal chef who serves seal meat threatened after GG dined on marine mammal.

Killing humans is ok.  No one ever receives death threat for killing other humans.
But when it comes to animal, people are overly sensitive.


You've got a good documentary here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1974779506794892588

[Barrister]

I guess it's the bludgeoning to death part they object to. There have been campaigns to get it banned for ages.

They aren't bludgeoned to death.  The hakapik crushes the skull, killing them instantly.  It's apparently far more efficient, and therefore more humane, than shooting them.

[saskganesh]

you know, we lost this  fight in 1972 when the United States of America -- our most important trade partner -- banned seal imports as part of the Marine Mammal Protection act.

so only losers and stupid people keep on trying. of course, we could spend marketing dollars so as to promote selling seal penises to Mono's father in law, but I would prefer we did not.

[Barrister]

Why do you hate the inuit Sasks?