US Exit from NATO?

[Norgy]

My take on this is that it's more intimidation tactics. Diplomacy seems to be limited to threats or slurs these days.

The Americans I know are very nice people, perhaps much more than Europeans are in general. That is why I have such problems understanding how nice people elect such a poor leader whose only tactic is that of a real estate developer in debt: Trying to scare the shit out of people to make a deal.

[The Brain]

Rutte has to go. And maybe next time don't put a MAGA guy in that role.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Rutte has to go. And maybe next time don't put a MAGA guy in that role.

Afaik, with Rutte one has to remember his words mean nothing. They're just wind and he'll pivot into whatever direction is required.

So in that regard he may be perfect to keep the thing on lifesupport until someone reasonable replaces the orange blob.

But that only works if the euros stop dawdling and build up that army. Ideally even reworking and streamlining the things so that they also get the benefits of scale.

That means some red lines will have to be crossed and 'holy houses' torn down.

In the mean time the optics of Rutte suck.

[The Brain]

Why would someone reasonable replace the orange blob? And even if it happens, you can't be allied to a country that is on and off constantly.

The US is a write-off as an ally.

[Maladict]

Rutte has to go. And maybe next time don't put a MAGA guy in that role.

Afaik, with Rutte one has to remember his words mean nothing. They're just wind and he'll pivot into whatever direction is required.

So in that regard he may be perfect to keep the thing on lifesupport until someone reasonable replaces the orange blob.

But that only works if the euros stop dawdling and build up that army. Ideally even reworking and streamlining the things so that they also get the benefits of scale.

That means some red lines will have to be crossed and 'holy houses' torn down.

In the mean time the optics of Rutte suck.

The optics suck, but he doesn't care about that. He's a human-shaped lubricant, which can be very effective in holding a coalition together. Just don't expect any kind of vision or long-term strategy.

[crazy canuck]

Why would someone reasonable replace the orange blob? And even if it happens, you can't be allied to a country that is on and off constantly.

The US is a write-off as an ally.

Yes, for the foreseeable future

[Duque de Bragança]

Cuba has less climate constraints.

True.  But there's all kind of tropical diseases to be caught in these climates.

I know modern medicines does wonders, with vaccines and all, but that's not in the current philosophy of this MAHA movement at the head of the US currently.  Drinking raw milk and running in the rain ain't gonna save you from every fever.

I suppose you could say as well that Greenland being a very cold climate is (much) healthier than a tropical climate, as long as you are prepared for the cold. 

[viper37]

Cuba has less climate constraints.

True.  But there's all kind of tropical diseases to be caught in these climates.

I know modern medicines does wonders, with vaccines and all, but that's not in the current philosophy of this MAHA movement at the head of the US currently.  Drinking raw milk and running in the rain ain't gonna save you from every fever.

I suppose you could say as well that Greenland being a very cold climate is (much) healthier than a tropical climate, as long as you are prepared for the cold. 

Yes.  As the Vikings explorers and their later colonizers have proven, the initial visits are alright, it's only the longer stay that is the problem

[Sheilbh]

Trump is not forever. Tusk knows this and so far is apt at delaying.

We always act like a US administration is permanent. It really is not. How far are we from the Obama years of hope?

Trump saying he won't act on article 5 is only a possibility for 3 more years.

Not just Tusk - all the Baltic leaders too have adopted a very similar position.

It's one of the reasons I'm less bullish about NATO's capacity without the US is that broadly speaking the leaders of countries close to Russia seem to be going out of their way to placate/work with Trump. I think there's a reason they're doing that and - as with the Polish and Baltic warnings about Russia for 25 years, dismissed by more sophisticated Chancelleries in the rest of Europe as slightly hysterical - I trust their strategic assessment of their neighbourhood.

The leaders taking a more strident stance towards Trump generally seem to be further away from Russia.