The DEI thread

[Grey Fox]

As far as I know DEI is strongly opposed in Quebec.

Or more simply, we are not consumed by the framing of the anglo-saxon world of social issues.

So it's not a human rights issue but rather just an Anglo-Saxon thing?

Your questions always feel like gotchas.

Diversity, equality & inclusion are human rights issues. However, Quebec and other non-Anglo-Saxon societies have different interpretations of what those 3 things include & exclude. Equality is, maybe, the most straightforward of the 3. The other 2 are not straightforward, especially diversity.

But yeah, this insanity when it comes to DEI policy & this woke/non-woke BS is an Anglo-Saxon thing.

[Solmyr]

The reason that the two sides will never convince the other is that they are not talking about the same thing. I have no idea what the folks on the right mean when they say "DEI." If they mean anything.

They mean "hiring someone other than white men".

Hello. White guy who got into university through EDI here.

Yeah, but the question was what folks on the right mean by it.

[crazy canuck]

As far as I know DEI is strongly opposed in Quebec.

Or more simply, we are not consumed by the framing of the anglo-saxon world of social issues.

So it's not a human rights issue but rather just an Anglo-Saxon thing?

Your questions always feel like gotchas.

Diversity, equality & inclusion are human rights issues. However, Quebec and other non-Anglo-Saxon societies have different interpretations of what those 3 things include & exclude. Equality is, maybe, the most straightforward of the 3. The other 2 are not straightforward, especially diversity.

But yeah, this insanity when it comes to DEI policy & this woke/non-woke BS is an Anglo-Saxon thing.

Yeah, there has been some influential scholarly work coming out of Quebec on what each component of DEI means.  In other places the distinctions between diversity, equity and inclusion are blurred and to the point that in places like the US DEI has a singular meaning.

[viper37]

Corporations and government didn't start hiring DEI consultants to design wheelchair access ramps or make their office more ergonomic for handicapped people.  We can drop that pretense right now.

A lot of DEI stuff went way overboard and tried to shame white people simply for being white, often accusing them of racism for daring to question false history.

Could I see some evidence that "Corporations and government" "went way overboard and tried to shame white people simply for being white, often accusing them of racism for daring to question false history?"  Note that Truth Social posts do not constitute evidence.

I'll have to dig the case for Quebec that went into court.

[viper37]

DEI includes things like wheelchair access ramps btw. I think there's an overarching argument here which is that's it the right thing to do.

A lot of DEI stuff went way overboard and tried to shame white people simply for being white, often accusing them of racism for daring to question false history.

Any examples? I have no idea what you're referring to.

The former teacher accused of racism, who lost his job, had to sue, received an indemnity, but never got his job back.

Search the archives of La Presse.

[Valmy]

Yeah, there is going to be some abuse. It goes back to the thing about the fact that black people can be racist. Hell I think it is kind of hard to grow up in this hemisphere and not be racist. It just seems to infect everything.

That and to some companies 'DEI' just meant engaging in contemptible tokenism, rather than actually addressing issues.

[Valmy]

In my experience, in most places in the corporate world, DEI was mostly a slogan for paying lip service to caring about diversity without really doing much to further it. It's been a bit surreal watching magaworld work themselves into a fury over it, conjuring imaginary horrors.

Yep. Sort of like all those oil companies talking about how green they are.

BP stands for BEYOND PETROLEUM!!!!111

[grumbler]

Eh, I read this.
https://thehub.ca/2024/06/03/elie-cantin-nantel-quebec-is-a-national-anomaly-why-the-socially-liberal-province-hasnt-gone-woke/

Well, half of it.

My guess is you did a quick google search and were happy when you found an article in English about Quebec that had the term DEI used in a negative context.  But if you read the reporters interpretation of what the motion was, you will understand it was not a rejection of DEI. No DEI programs in any Canadian provinces have a quota system. And so the motion was simply in keeping with Quebec provincial laws, which by the way, are entirely consistent with DEI principles are, in my view, the strongest statutory supports for those principles in the Country.

This seems to be another example of a misunderstanding of what DEI is both my the author of the article and you.

An easy way to steer clear of the right-wing bullshit is to recognize that any article whose title uses the word "woke" is crap.  The right doesn't even know what woke means, but they'll commit murder, if necessary, to stop it.

[crazy canuck]

Corporations and government didn't start hiring DEI consultants to design wheelchair access ramps or make their office more ergonomic for handicapped people.  We can drop that pretense right now.

A lot of DEI stuff went way overboard and tried to shame white people simply for being white, often accusing them of racism for daring to question false history.

Could I see some evidence that "Corporations and government" "went way overboard and tried to shame white people simply for being white, often accusing them of racism for daring to question false history?"  Note that Truth Social posts do not constitute evidence.

I'll have to dig the case for Quebec that went into court.

I would like to see it too please 

[crazy canuck]

An easy way to steer clear of the right-wing bullshit is to recognize that any article whose title uses the word "woke" is crap.  The right doesn't even know what woke means, but they'll commit murder, if necessary, to stop it.

 

[Razgovory]

.

This is my understanding, and if true why fight so hard to defend it?

The right are taking aim not just at shit ineffectual implementations of equality policies, but using DEI as a dog whistle for the entire concept of equality.
Big hints they're using it as a wedge to have a go at workers rights in general.

If their strategy is to attack something that is unpopular and doesn't work to get you to defend it so they can use it as wedge, then the smart thing is not to defend it.

[crazy canuck]

.

This is my understanding, and if true why fight so hard to defend it?

The right are taking aim not just at shit ineffectual implementations of equality policies, but using DEI as a dog whistle for the entire concept of equality.
Big hints they're using it as a wedge to have a go at workers rights in general.

If their strategy is to attack something that is unpopular and doesn't work to get you to defend it so they can use it as wedge, then the smart thing is not to defend it.

MAGA - Due process is evil.  50% of Americans don't support it.

Raz - Ok then let's stop with this due process stuff.

[Razgovory]

Eh, I read this.
https://thehub.ca/2024/06/03/elie-cantin-nantel-quebec-is-a-national-anomaly-why-the-socially-liberal-province-hasnt-gone-woke/

Well, half of it.

My guess is you did a quick google search and were happy when you found an article in English about Quebec that had the term DEI used in a negative context.  But if you read the reporters interpretation of what the motion was, you will understand it was not a rejection of DEI. No DEI programs in any Canadian provinces have a quota system. And so the motion was simply in keeping with Quebec provincial laws, which by the way, are entirely consistent with DEI principles are, in my view, the strongest statutory supports for those principles in the Country.

This seems to be another example of a misunderstanding of what DEI is both my the author of the article and you.

An easy way to steer clear of the right-wing bullshit is to recognize that any article whose title uses the word "woke" is crap.  The right doesn't even know what woke means, but they'll commit murder, if necessary, to stop it.

Woke was used by the left before it was used by the right, in particular it was to be used as way for center-leftists to criticize those further to the left.

[Razgovory]

.

This is my understanding, and if true why fight so hard to defend it?

The right are taking aim not just at shit ineffectual implementations of equality policies, but using DEI as a dog whistle for the entire concept of equality.
Big hints they're using it as a wedge to have a go at workers rights in general.

If their strategy is to attack something that is unpopular and doesn't work to get you to defend it so they can use it as wedge, then the smart thing is not to defend it.

MAGA - Due process is evil.  50% of Americans don't support it.

Raz - Ok then let's stop with this due process stuff.

The majority of the population doesn't support getting rid of due process and it does seem to work and it is something that matters.  So not the best example you could have come up with.

[crazy canuck]

Eh, I read this.
https://thehub.ca/2024/06/03/elie-cantin-nantel-quebec-is-a-national-anomaly-why-the-socially-liberal-province-hasnt-gone-woke/

Well, half of it.

My guess is you did a quick google search and were happy when you found an article in English about Quebec that had the term DEI used in a negative context.  But if you read the reporters interpretation of what the motion was, you will understand it was not a rejection of DEI. No DEI programs in any Canadian provinces have a quota system. And so the motion was simply in keeping with Quebec provincial laws, which by the way, are entirely consistent with DEI principles are, in my view, the strongest statutory supports for those principles in the Country.

This seems to be another example of a misunderstanding of what DEI is both my the author of the article and you.

An easy way to steer clear of the right-wing bullshit is to recognize that any article whose title uses the word "woke" is crap.  The right doesn't even know what woke means, but they'll commit murder, if necessary, to stop it.

Woke was used by the left before it was used by the right, in particular it was to be used as way for center-leftists to criticize those further to the left.

You are correct that the term "woke" was used by the left. The meaning you have attributed to it's meaning at that time is not accurate.  It was not a term used in a disparaging way.