Israel-Palestine flame thread

[Zoupa]

Right, settler-colonialism theory.  Simply living in the wrong place is a form of intolerable oppression.

Yes, because all the colonies were empty land that didn't belong to anyone before those jolly good folks moved in.

 

[Grey Fox]

Right, settler-colonialism theory.  Simply living in the wrong place is a form of intolerable oppression.

Yes, because all the colonies were empty land that didn't belong to anyone before those jolly good folks moved in.

 

Why does that matter?

[DGuller]

Go fuck yourself. Nobody gives a shit what you think.

I do, actually, so there is at least one person who does.

[Valmy]

Right, settler-colonialism theory.  Simply living in the wrong place is a form of intolerable oppression.

No. Fucking doing intolerable oppressive things is intolerable oppression.

The problem with the settler-colonists was not that they moved to a place. It was what they did when they got there.

Why are you being so weird about this? Is colonialism being bad something you are disputing?

They have to clear Gaza, the West Bank and Israel of all Palestinians.

Just to be clear in the initial exchange with Raz we were only talking about the Trump plan to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

[Razgovory]

Cause I read up on the Settler Colonial theory.  In fact, I posted some essay's by the theorists here.  Colonialism is structure not an event.  Simply being here is part of the structure.  It's not an act, it's part of being.  You, me, Grumbler, Viper, Zoupa, Yi, are all settlers just as the guys who drove off the Indians.  We are forever tainted so long as the land is not in the hands of indigenous people.  Anything other than giving back the land is simply a hypocritical efforts to make ourselves feel less guilty.

https://clas.osu.edu/sites/clas.osu.edu/files/Tuck%20and%20Yang%202012%20Decolonization%20is%20not%20a%20metaphor.pdf

"Decolonization is not a metaphor" was something of a slogan among the antizionists the day after Oct 7th.  Naturally I wondered what the fuck they were talking about.  So I read up on it.

[Razgovory]

Go fuck yourself. Nobody gives a shit what you think.

I do, actually, so there is at least one person who does.

[Admiral Yi]

ethnic cleansing, the attempt to create ethnically homogeneous geographic areas through the deportation or forcible displacement of persons belonging to particular ethnic groups

Britanica

[Josquius]

Objecting to those who call Israeli actions genocide is fair enough. That term has a very high bar and I wouldn't agree Israel is meeting it.

Ethnic cleansing though... Come on. It obviously is that.

[Admiral Yi]

Objecting to those who call Israeli actions genocide is fair enough. That term has a very high bar and I wouldn't agree Israel is meeting it.

Ethnic cleansing though... Come on. It obviously is that.

Do you think Israeli actions in Gaza are intended to create an ethnically homogeneous area?  I.e. all Jews.

[Zoupa]

Cause I read up on the Settler Colonial theory.  In fact, I posted some essay's by the theorists here.  Colonialism is structure not an event.  Simply being here is part of the structure.  It's not an act, it's part of being.  You, me, Grumbler, Viper, Zoupa, Yi, are all settlers just as the guys who drove off the Indians.  We are forever tainted so long as the land is not in the hands of indigenous people.  Anything other than giving back the land is simply a hypocritical efforts to make ourselves feel less guilty.

https://clas.osu.edu/sites/clas.osu.edu/files/Tuck%20and%20Yang%202012%20Decolonization%20is%20not%20a%20metaphor.pdf

"Decolonization is not a metaphor" was something of a slogan among the antizionists the day after Oct 7th.  Naturally I wondered what the fuck they were talking about.  So I read up on it.

I'm just gonna move in to your house then. Go somewhere else, not my problem.

[Josquius]

Objecting to those who call Israeli actions genocide is fair enough. That term has a very high bar and I wouldn't agree Israel is meeting it.

Ethnic cleansing though... Come on. It obviously is that.

Do you think Israeli actions in Gaza are intended to create an ethnically homogeneous area?  I.e. all Jews.

Its pretty clearly what they do with their West Bank settlements.
They've been forcing Palestinians out of areas of Gaza and there is increasing talk of this being permanent in some areas at least.

[Admiral Yi]

Its pretty clearly what they do with their West Bank settlements.
They've been forcing Palestinians out of areas of Gaza and there is increasing talk of this being permanent in some areas at least.

Why is my question difficult to answer?

[Josquius]

Its pretty clearly what they do with their West Bank settlements.
They've been forcing Palestinians out of areas of Gaza and there is increasing talk of this being permanent in some areas at least.

Why is my question difficult to answer?

If you don't think I answered you then I've no idea what you're fishing for.

[crazy canuck]

Objecting to those who call Israeli actions genocide is fair enough. That term has a very high bar and I wouldn't agree Israel is meeting it.

Ethnic cleansing though... Come on. It obviously is that.

Grumbler, here is a good example of the problem.  In the case of the Rwandan leader convicted of genocide no mention was made of ethnic cleansing.  The reason is quite simple, it is not a term used in international law, but commentators have suggested another reason is that if it was defined, it would have to be something more than genocide since it would make no sense to create a lesser included offence.

But people like Raz and Jos simply don't understand the meaning of the words they are using.

[Josquius]

Objecting to those who call Israeli actions genocide is fair enough. That term has a very high bar and I wouldn't agree Israel is meeting it.

Ethnic cleansing though... Come on. It obviously is that.

Grumbler, here is a good example of the problem.  In the case of the Rwandan leader convicted of genocide no mention was made of ethnic cleansing.  The reason is quite simple, it is not a term used in international law, but commentators have suggested another reason is that if it was defined, it would have to be something more than genocide since it would make no sense to create a lesser included offence.

But people like Raz and Jos simply don't understand the meaning of the words they are using.

You've got this backwards.
Ethnic cleansing is the lesser act.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/whats-the-difference-between-genocide-and-ethnic-cleansing
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/6/2/it-is-not-ethnic-cleansing-it-is-genocide

It absolutely does make sense to define lesser crimes. Fail to do so and you can get away with ticking a lot of the boxes of the greater crime as long as you don't tick them all. But correct that this hasn't happened.