Israel-Palestine flame thread

[grumbler]

Would it be?  If one nuke, launched by Iran, was launched at a US military in the middle east and killed 1,000 people, do you think the counter attack would be proportional?  Probably not.

The truth is we don't know how the US would respond to rocket attacks on it's civilians.  I doubt it would be proportional, and if they were landing near you, I doubt you would want them to be proportional.  I remember how blood thirsty everyone was right after 9/11.

You are way out over your skis, here. I've been involved in air strike planning on the staff of Commander, Carrier Group Four, and I can tell you that proportionality and collateral damage are specifically addressed in the planning (as Alci pointed out, with the staff JAG there to ensure compliance with the LoAC).

Stick to claims that you have some assurance might be true.  Don't invent claims because you have no actual claims to present.

[viper37]

Neither Israel nor Ukraine torture and kill prisoners because it isn't beneficial to do so, it's even counterproductive. Hamas and Russia torture prisoners because they are evil sadists who deserve to be annihilated.

Israel routinely kills pow, civilians, and humiliates prisoners on top of aid workers who are deliberately targeted.
Israel/OPT: Horrifying cases of torture and degrading treatment of Palestinian detainees amid spike in arbitrary arrests 

Bruises and broken ribs – Palestinian deaths in Israeli prisons


"Point-Blank": Israeli Soldiers Execute 15 Gaza Medics & Rescue Workers, Bury in Unmarked Mass Grave




Israel is not even hiding about its desire to do more:
Israeli minister Ben Gvir calls for execution of Palestinian prisoners to ease overcrowding

[dist]

I'm guessing you haven't seen all the reports of torture and humiliation of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons.

Without forgetting how that interacts with all the reports of unjustified imprisonments of Palestinians.

[Razgovory]

Would it be?  If one nuke, launched by Iran, was launched at a US military in the middle east and killed 1,000 people, do you think the counter attack would be proportional?  Probably not.

The truth is we don't know how the US would respond to rocket attacks on it's civilians.  I doubt it would be proportional, and if they were landing near you, I doubt you would want them to be proportional.  I remember how blood thirsty everyone was right after 9/11.

You are way out over your skis, here. I've been involved in air strike planning on the staff of Commander, Carrier Group Four, and I can tell you that proportionality and collateral damage are specifically addressed in the planning (as Alci pointed out, with the staff JAG there to ensure compliance with the LoAC).

Stick to claims that you have some assurance might be true.  Don't invent claims because you have no actual claims to present.

Show your work.

[Valmy]

Show your work.

What? He cited his personal experience? What do you want? A live video feed of something that happened years ago?

[Razgovory]

Show your work.

What? He cited his personal experience? What do you want? A live video feed of something that happened years ago?

Actually, that was a joke.  Any work he did on that would be classified.  He couldn't show his work.  I will concede, that point.

[chipwich]

Neither Israel nor Ukraine torture and kill prisoners because it isn't beneficial to do so, it's even counterproductive. Hamas and Russia torture prisoners because they are evil sadists who deserve to be annihilated.

I'm guessing you haven't seen all the reports of torture and humiliation of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons.

I've seen "reports". I haven't seen videos of braying mobs abusing corpses while chanting Allah Ackbar that are posted to the victim's social media accounts.

[viper37]

I've seen "reports". I haven't seen videos of braying mobs abusing corpses while chanting Allah Ackbar that are posted to the victim's social media accounts.

There were reports of Palestinians recapturing Israeli hostages and returning them to their Hamas captors.

I have not seen video evidence of this.

I have also read of reports of UNRWA members working for Hamas, instead of maintaining a strict neutrality to simply help Palestinian refugees.  No video evidence of this.

I will now assume this is fake news.

No video, no proof.

I think it should be like that in courts too.  If you don't have a recording, it's false.  Same for journalistic reports.  If they don't have video recordings of what they report, it is fake news.

[crazy canuck]

Neither Israel nor Ukraine torture and kill prisoners because it isn't beneficial to do so, it's even counterproductive. Hamas and Russia torture prisoners because they are evil sadists who deserve to be annihilated.

I'm guessing you haven't seen all the reports of torture and humiliation of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons.

I've seen "reports". I haven't seen videos of braying mobs abusing corpses while chanting Allah Ackbar that are posted to the victim's social media accounts.

And if you did see pictures of Israeli soldiers chanting that, you should probably assume its an AI fake.

[Razgovory]

There are reports from Palestinians that Oct 7th was a false flag and the Israelis killed all those people.  Also, the official newspaper of the PLO reports that the Israelis are recruiting and training cows to spy on Palestinians.

[Razgovory]

Neither Israel nor Ukraine torture and kill prisoners because it isn't beneficial to do so, it's even counterproductive. Hamas and Russia torture prisoners because they are evil sadists who deserve to be annihilated.

I'm guessing you haven't seen all the reports of torture and humiliation of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons.

I've seen "reports". I haven't seen videos of braying mobs abusing corpses while chanting Allah Ackbar that are posted to the victim's social media accounts.

And if you did see pictures of Israeli soldiers chanting that, you should probably assume its an AI fake.

Well, Israeli soldiers chanting "Allah Ackbar" would be a red flag.

[crazy canuck]

Neither Israel nor Ukraine torture and kill prisoners because it isn't beneficial to do so, it's even counterproductive. Hamas and Russia torture prisoners because they are evil sadists who deserve to be annihilated.

I'm guessing you haven't seen all the reports of torture and humiliation of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons.

I've seen "reports". I haven't seen videos of braying mobs abusing corpses while chanting Allah Ackbar that are posted to the victim's social media accounts.

And if you did see pictures of Israeli soldiers chanting that, you should probably assume its an AI fake.

Well, Israeli soldiers chanting "Allah Ackbar" would be a red flag.

See, we can agree on something in this thread 

[Solmyr]

Neither Israel nor Ukraine torture and kill prisoners because it isn't beneficial to do so, it's even counterproductive. Hamas and Russia torture prisoners because they are evil sadists who deserve to be annihilated.

I'm guessing you haven't seen all the reports of torture and humiliation of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons.

There are reports of Ukrainians torturing and killing Russian POWs as well, you really want to play the "Both sides!" game in Ukraine?

Do you really want to play the whataboutism game? Ukrainians torturing and killing Russian POWs is wrong as well. Chipwich claimed that neither Israel nor Ukraine do it, which is just incorrect.

[Razgovory]

Yes, it is wrong but does it diminish your support for Ukraine?  Those NeoNazis that fought for Ukraine, did that cause you to throw up your hands and say "well both sides are bad"?  Of course not.

[Solmyr]

If anything, Israel's bombing of civilians is more comparable to what Russia is doing.