Changing Corporate Cultures and the Consumer's Trust in those Brands.

[mongers]

Anecdote, loose collection of biases or near self-contradictory theory first?

I'll go with anecdotes first, something I'm comfortable with:

Amongst my Xmas presents were various ciders, including one from Aspalls and a nice little Casio desktop calculator.
Not being that familiar with Aspalls I looked at the label, weirdly it had a list of ingredients, never before seen that on a beer or cider, and those included water, apple juice, juice from concentrate, sugar, inverted sugar.   

This set of an alarm bell, maybe it's been taken over and they're cheapening production? So looked online, surprise, surprise it was taken over by the huge conglomerate Coors, so maybe they're hollowing out the company before closing the brewery down and walking off with the brand?
This seems to be a  common happening with traditional British brands once bought up.

Conversely, the basic Casio calculator was excellent, from the functions to the feel/action of the keys there seems to be considerable craft put into it's design as compared to knockoff or 'cheap' brands from China.

Looking on the Casio website, they don't just offer two or three basic desktop models, instead it's a couple of dozen and that seems to be the same across many of their product ranges and some of these product have changed in years. 
Can this be the most efficient way of generating profits for the share holders?

Maybe it's a sign of some different corporate culture that does put a value on consumer trust?

Does anyone here have experience of Japanese or other corporate cultures versus the more familiar Anglo-American versions? Personally I've very limited experience of different cultures having only ever worked for one large conglomerate, Chase Manhattan. 

[Grey Fox]

Everything gets inshitificated at some point.

[Zanza]

Looking at the EBIT margins of Casio and Molson Coors suggests that Casio is more steady with good margins, whereas Molson Coors is more volatile with margins both greater and smaller than Casio in the last years. That suggests both business models are viable and one has more risks/potentials than the other.

[mongers]

Looking at the EBIT margins of Casio and Molson Coors suggests that Casio is more steady with good margins, whereas Molson Coors is more volatile with margins both greater and smaller than Casio in the last years. That suggests both business models are viable and one has more risks/potentials than the other.

That's an interesting way of looking at it, does it hold if the two companies differ in size so much?

edit:
Oh, bit of search shows Casio with annual sales of 1.65billion USD versus Coors on 11.7 billion USD, no not hugely different.

[HVC]

Could also be that coors, a bigger company than the original  cider company of old, just had a more thorough ingredients list. Lawyers lead to stuff like that. While old companies ingredients were exactly the same they just put "apples" and  "sugar". Coors lawyers told them to be more exact. Lawsuits breed vigilance if not more actual accountability.

[Zanza]

That's an interesting way of looking at it, does it hold if the two companies differ in size so much?

Yes. Margin is a relative measure and allows comparison of different sized companies.

[Josquius]

I mean, yeah, Japan does the whole cultural thing of (at least appearing to) do a bloody good job even where its not really called for.  Like toilet cleaners doing everything absolutely perfectly and giving off an aura of really taking pride in being the best damn toilet cleaner ever.
Its a huge cultural expectation.
Its quite a challenge to deal with there as of course the European way is kind of the opposite. You give off the appearance you're half arsing everything and just counting the minutes until you can go to the pub whilst in reality you're absolutely breaking your back, in Japan though you give the appearance of being eternally busy and overworked even if in reality you might not have much to do at all.

But...I'm not sure what you're seeing with Casio has anything to do with this.
Its not a company I'm that familiar with. But as I understand it they had this big niche as a budget electronics company, something they managed to do well in even beyond the day where that was all Japan was said to do (that famous Back to the Future scene).
So the rise of China would have really hit them far more than any companies whose niche was in doing quality work.
Calculators in particular are a really devalued product these days. I remember being told a story once of a professor who back in the 70s spent thousands on the latest and newest high tech calculator, only for a few months later a new product to come out for a fraction of the price, and it has been down hill since then with basic calculators being a standard part of phones and computers... And what little market remains covered by the Chinese. So the only opening for them there is to go for every possible niche, and given they're a respected name in the field they can manage to cut through?

That is something with Japan. People there tend to be a lot bigger on buying from domestic companies than you find elsewhere. Its Galapagos days have weakened a lot the past 15 years but they're not totally gone.

[Sheilbh]

This set of an alarm bell, maybe it's been taken over and they're cheapening production? So looked online, surprise, surprise it was taken over by the huge conglomerate Coors, so maybe they're hollowing out the company before closing the brewery down and walking off with the brand?
This seems to be a  common happening with traditional British brands once bought up.

Yep - see also Cadbury

[mongers]

I mean, yeah, Japan does the whole cultural thing of (at least appearing to) do a bloody good job even where its not really called for.  Like toilet cleaners doing everything absolutely perfectly and giving off an aura of really taking pride in being the best damn toilet cleaner ever.
Its a huge cultural expectation.
Its quite a challenge to deal with there as of course the European way is kind of the opposite. You give off the appearance you're half arsing everything and just counting the minutes until you can go to the pub whilst in reality you're absolutely breaking your back, in Japan though you give the appearance of being eternally busy and overworked even if in reality you might not have much to do at all.

But...I'm not sure what you're seeing with Casio has anything to do with this.
Its not a company I'm that familiar with. But as I understand it they had this big niche as a budget electronics company, something they managed to do well in even beyond the day where that was all Japan was said to do (that famous Back to the Future scene).
So the rise of China would have really hit them far more than any companies whose niche was in doing quality work.
Calculators in particular are a really devalued product these days. I remember being told a story once of a professor who back in the 70s spent thousands on the latest and newest high tech calculator, only for a few months later a new product to come out for a fraction of the price, and it has been down hill since then with basic calculators being a standard part of phones and computers... And what little market remains covered by the Chinese. So the only opening for them there is to go for every possible niche, and given they're a respected name in the field they can manage to cut through?

That is something with Japan. People there tend to be a lot bigger on buying from domestic companies than you find elsewhere. Its Galapagos days have weakened a lot the past 15 years but they're not totally gone.

Maybe they're still selling a few more of these desktop calculators, note it's not a complex scientific or graphics calculator:

Value desktop calculator

[mongers]

This set of an alarm bell, maybe it's been taken over and they're cheapening production? So looked online, surprise, surprise it was taken over by the huge conglomerate Coors, so maybe they're hollowing out the company before closing the brewery down and walking off with the brand?
This seems to be a  common happening with traditional British brands once bought up.

Yep - see also Cadbury

Yep, that was in the back of my mind, following on from King Charles 'removing' the royal warrant from their product. Possible because he wants to support UK jobs and hate F'ing palm oil/fat* ?



* is there a cadbury's chocolate product that doesn't have it?

[Josquius]

Wasn't the Cadbury warrant removal part of a set of unhealthy product removals?

Maybe they're still selling a few more of these desktop calculators, not it's not a complex scientific or graphics calculator:

Value desktop calculator

£360!!!!
Who the hell is buying this?
I suppose thats another way they're doing well... Can't be costing them much to make and that price is insane.
Its not like a fancy knife or even a pen either where you'll really get a difference in quality of output.

[mongers]

Wasn't the Cadbury warrant removal part of a set of unhealthy product removals?

Maybe they're still selling a few more of these desktop calculators, not it's not a complex scientific or graphics calculator:

Value desktop calculator

£360!!!!
Who the hell is buying this?
I suppose thats another way they're doing well... Can't be costing them much to make and that price is insane.
Its not like a fancy knife or even a pen either where you'll really get a difference in quality of output.

Yes perhaps that the reason, though there would be a good few more in that case.

As you say the rationale for the calculator is insane, especially as all the other models in the desktop range are 5-35 quid.

[HVC]

That's a lot of money for a boomer to write BOOBS out in numbers

[Sheilbh]

Yep, that was in the back of my mind, following on from King Charles 'removing' the royal warrant from their product. Possible because he wants to support UK jobs and hate F'ing palm oil/fat* ?



* is there a cadbury's chocolate product that doesn't have it?

Don't really care on the reasons. But Kraft bought Cadbury with lending from RBS (nationalised at the time) and with the strong support of then business secretary Lord Mandelson. Promptly changed their tax domicile and laid off loads of UK workers.

I don't personally care about a royal warrant but seems fair enough to expect the royals to consume British (would that we could suggest the rest of the state did).

Plus an iconic brand particularly in that part of the world - similarly Aspall's is 300 years old and a founding member of the Soil Association. I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need to be more French and they were right to stop Danone being taken over on national security grounds

[mongers]

That's a lot of money for a boomer to write BOOBS out in numbers