Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-25

[Legbiter]

Anyways, there's no point in worrying about minor details like the war because in a couple of months it will be all over with a GREAT GREAT deal for Ukraine.  True they will lose much of their sovereign territory and many of their people will be trapped in Russian murder-rape occupation zones, but in return they will get peace for at least 8 months, a 5% discount for room stays at the new Trump Hotel in Russian Odessa (limit one per customer, black out dates apply), and a Trump Steaks t-shirt.

To get the BEST deal, perhaps the greatest deal of all time, he has to create leverage against the russians first. Many such cases! Biden was a disgrace, many say the WORST EVER on Ukraine! 

[Legbiter]

The Chinese vessel which went on a cable cutting spree yesterday in the Baltic has been detained by the Danes.

[mongers]

So the US is now allowing Ukraine to have some of their anti-personnel mines, I had thought the Western powers should have been supplying them with all available mines for the past two years?

Oddly over here the new coverage about this is being largely framed around the legality of these landmines, together with plenty of talking head/experts complaining about the evil that is ant-personnel mines and why we shouldn't be providing them: Do not some of the activists realise Ukraine is fighting for national survival, if Putin wins just how many people do they think will then die from summary execution and in the detention camps?

Massive extensive Russian minefields are largely responsible for containing the Ukrainian counter-attacks in 2023 and in the case of the new Bosnian state are what save them from still worse ethnic slaughter, when they had to defend themselves whilst under an arms embargo.

If the Ukrainians are forced to conduct widespread retreats or that frontlines begin to collapse, I'd be happy to see them use chemical weapons on the Russian troops, if that was militarily effective. Obviously it's likely a strategic mistake, but at that stage Putin would be well on the way to extinguishing Ukraine anyway.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Oddly over here the new coverage about this is being largely framed around the legality of these landmines, together with plenty of talking head/experts complaining about the evil that is ant-personnel mines and why we shouldn't be providing them: Do not some of the activists realise Ukraine is fighting for national survival, if Putin wins just how many people do they think will then die from summary execution and in the detention camps?

they don't really care about that given that they're not living in a place that's fighting for national survival. Basically a case of full stomachs, soft beds and ivory towers.

[Barrister]

Yeah I was against the anti-landmine treaty (aka the Ottawa Treaty) at the time.  While I think there's some role in trying to put certain restrictions on war to prevent the worst form of atrocities - at some point if you're going to have war it's going to be ugly.  People are going to die.

Either you some way to outlaw war, or you acknowledge that in a war people will be horrifically mutilated and killed.  And therefore is war is going to happen (like in Ukraine) countries need to defend themselves to the fullest extent possible.

[Grey Fox]

It was all naive stuff from the post war generation that thought the cold war would go on forever.

[Sheilbh]

Wasn't it from the 90s? I associate in my head with Princess Di and New Labour.

So less the Cold War would go on forever than inter-state conflict was over and the only way landmines would be used would be as nasty weapons, mainly affecting civilians in civil wars.

[HVC]

We have weapons that we consider past the pale. I think landmines fit into that category, but I'm willing to be corrected. I mean no one is calling for Ukraine to be armed with gas weapons, although they'd be pretty effective.

[Barrister]

Wasn't it from the 90s? I associate in my head with Princess Di and New Labour.

So less the Cold War would go on forever than inter-state conflict was over and the only way landmines would be used would be as nasty weapons, mainly affecting civilians in civil wars.

Yeah - it was the 90s.  You can blame Lloyd Axworthy for it.

Never liked the guy.  I've mentinoed before I was the campaign manager for the Reform Party candidate running in his riding back in 1997.  It was a weird election because the city was flooding at the time.

Anyways - Axworthy only deigned to show up for one community debate, but won more votes than every other candidate combined running against him.

Shows you how good a political operative I was.

[Tamas]

So I am guessing the massive Russian retaliation for the missile-use green light happened: according to the Ukrainians they used an ICBM to hit a Ukrainian town.

I feel sorry for the Ukrainians of course, but if Russia wants to spend their ICBM stockpile on terrorbombing, that's not necessarily a bad thing. And for me it reeks of desperation.

[HisMajestyBOB]

So I am guessing the massive Russian retaliation for the missile-use green light happened: according to the Ukrainians they used an ICBM to hit a Ukrainian town.

I feel sorry for the Ukrainians of course, but if Russia wants to spend their ICBM stockpile on terrorbombing, that's not necessarily a bad thing. And for me it reeks of desperation.

My impression is that the intended audience is western politicians. Russia is threatening "Stop supporting Ukraine, give us what we want, or the next one has a nuke," and their supporters in the West are shouting that we need to stop supporting Ukraine or it will lead to World War 3.
Some of the politicians, like Trump, are already inclined to support Russia anyway, but this gives them more leverage to convince others to come along.

[grumbler]

Firing ICBMs, even for short ranges, is not without risk.  ICBM launches are the first horsemen of the apocalypse.

[Josquius]

According to commentary I've read it wasn't an icbm but a irbm.
Which is all the worse as they were meant to be illegal.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

According to commentary I've read it wasn't an icbm but a irbm.
Which is all the worse as they were meant to be illegal.

Russia doesn't give a shit about that stuff, neither does China I wager.