Quo Vadis, Democrats?

[Valmy]

I think talking to the other side is a useful exercise for Democrats, if you do it with an open mind.  Not to build a bridge to the person you're talking to, but to avoid burning a bridge with people who are not yet on the other side.  Another benefit of talking to the people on the right is that you can't spend this time talking to the people on the far left, which for a Democrat is very healthy in its own right.

Depends whom you're talking to.

There are conservatives, former Republicans who believe in democracy.  People like the Lincoln Project.

Talk to this people, build bridges with these people, sure, go ahead.  You share an interest.

Don't go an talk with people who make Nazi salute to build bridges.

Hell, you can have extremists on your show. Just have them on to debate them and challenge them. Show that you are the leader of the Democrats with solid progressive values not afraid to really get into it. That would be impressive.

[Razgovory]

No, I think Oex is right.  We need to go all in on extremism.  I think our next thing is go with the "Land Back" campaign.  Try to turn over all land in the United States to it's original owners, the native Americans.  Take property from 99% of the population and give it too 2% of the population.  That will really help turn out with the far-left.

Nobody on the left is saying this. What a bunch of garbage.

Oh and having Kirk, Newsome, and Savage on IS going all in on extremism.

Yeah, there are people on the Left interested in the "Land Back" campaign.  Oex just posted something about how moderation doesn't work, it's about turn out.

[Josquius]

Is Raz still claiming to be a Democrat?
Another one pulled from magas greatest hits there.
Lets ignore all the actual issues the dems could go left on and insist any look towards that direction has to mean some loopy culture wars shit about five people on the left care about and would be absolute gold for magas tactics.

[Grey Fox]

No, I think Oex is right.  We need to go all in on extremism.  I think our next thing is go with the "Land Back" campaign.  Try to turn over all land in the United States to it's original owners, the native Americans.  Take property from 99% of the population and give it too 2% of the population.  That will really help turn out with the far-left.

Nobody on the left is saying this. What a bunch of garbage.

That's not true. People are saying it. I've even seen it referenced in context to Quebec's independance.
"Only first nations people can decide what to do with the North American territory"

So fucking stupid from my side.

[Neil]

No, I think Oex is right.  We need to go all in on extremism.  I think our next thing is go with the "Land Back" campaign.  Try to turn over all land in the United States to it's original owners, the native Americans.  Take property from 99% of the population and give it too 2% of the population.  That will really help turn out with the far-left.

Nobody on the left is saying this. What a bunch of garbage.

It's a real thing, but it's a pretty tiny movement that is really only popular with Indians who stand to gain and the sort of blue-haired white-guilt liberal who tops out as a city councilor at best.  It's not a serious political movement.  Imagine where that whole 'free city' libertarian nonsense would be if the techbros weren't pumping cash into it, and that's pretty much the same energy.

[HVC]

No, I think Oex is right.  We need to go all in on extremism.  I think our next thing is go with the "Land Back" campaign.  Try to turn over all land in the United States to it's original owners, the native Americans.  Take property from 99% of the population and give it too 2% of the population.  That will really help turn out with the far-left.

Nobody on the left is saying this. What a bunch of garbage.

That's not true. People are saying it. I've even seen it referenced in context to Quebec's independance.
"Only first nations people can decide what to do with the North American territory"

So fucking stupid from my side.

Yeah, that was Raz who said it to goad Viper

[Josquius]

No, I think Oex is right.  We need to go all in on extremism.  I think our next thing is go with the "Land Back" campaign.  Try to turn over all land in the United States to it's original owners, the native Americans.  Take property from 99% of the population and give it too 2% of the population.  That will really help turn out with the far-left.

Nobody on the left is saying this. What a bunch of garbage.

That's not true. People are saying it. I've even seen it referenced in context to Quebec's independance.
"Only first nations people can decide what to do with the North American territory"

So fucking stupid from my side.

Isn't that a real and very specific quebec independence issue though? That in case of independence the Cree want to remain in Canada and the whole legal setup there means they have a case?

Quite a different thing to the loony hippy turtle island nosense Raz likes to go on about and pretend is a mainstream view (and I've only ever heard from him)

[Grey Fox]

No, I think Oex is right.  We need to go all in on extremism.  I think our next thing is go with the "Land Back" campaign.  Try to turn over all land in the United States to it's original owners, the native Americans.  Take property from 99% of the population and give it too 2% of the population.  That will really help turn out with the far-left.

Nobody on the left is saying this. What a bunch of garbage.

That's not true. People are saying it. I've even seen it referenced in context to Quebec's independance.
"Only first nations people can decide what to do with the North American territory"

So fucking stupid from my side.

Isn't that a real and very specific quebec independence issue though? That in case of independence the Cree want to remain in Canada and the whole legal setup there means they have a case?

Quite a different thing to the loony hippy turtle island nosense Raz likes to go on about and pretend is a mainstream view (and I've only ever heard from him)

That's a different issue tho. The Cree nations have lands that they control and resolving how independance would work for them needs to be resolved.

What the crazy Land back left wants is that only persons of First Nations status get to have a voice in how Quebec territory is handled. Ignoring everyone else that lives here in the past 400+ years.

[Valmy]

That's not true. People are saying it. I've even seen it referenced in context to Quebec's independance.
"Only first nations people can decide what to do with the North American territory"

So fucking stupid from my side.

Ok fair enough. Nobody who is a prominent leftwing podcaster out there is making this a serious issue. I am not talking about getting some fringe twitter person. I am talking about voices with huge audiences.

[Valmy]

Quite a different thing to the loony hippy turtle island nosense Raz likes to go on about and pretend is a mainstream view (and I've only ever heard from him)

The native Americans only very rarely come up in leftwing discussions in the United States. And the majority of Native Americans vote Republican anyway.

[Razgovory]

Is Raz still claiming to be a Democrat?
Another one pulled from magas greatest hits there.
Lets ignore all the actual issues the dems could go left on and insist any look towards that direction has to mean some loopy culture wars shit about five people on the left care about and would be absolute gold for magas tactics.

30 years ago, you could have said the same thing about Trans issues.  Nobody cares.  But now they do.  I think if we work to normalize this, work to cancel anyone who disagrees, we can put this plank on the party platform.  If that doesn't tickle your pickle, we could go all in on reparations.  Spend 14 trillion on giving every Black American 800,000 bucks.  That is a surefire way to win an election.

[Oexmelin]

Yes, by all means, let's both-side this thing. We all know how the power of the American State pales in comparison with what that one fringe leftist you once read on reddit can muster.

[Razgovory]

Hey, you're the one who dunks on moderates.

[Valmy]

30 years ago, you could have said the same thing about Trans issues.  Nobody cares.  But now they do.  I think if we work to normalize this, work to cancel anyone who disagrees, we can put this plank on the party platform.  If that doesn't tickle your pickle, we could go all in on reparations.  Spend 14 trillion on giving every Black American 800,000 bucks.  That is a surefire way to win an election.

We have always cared about that. Did you not notice it was LGBT, the T there? Were you under some kind of impression that trans people just didn't exist, and had no support, before the right wing started panic mongering about it?

Just before everybody agreed to just kind of leave them alone. I worked in a call center 30 years ago and they had separate bathrooms for all the trans people working there. The 1990s were woker than you remember.

Don't fall for all this right wing panic mongering. Once they lost the gay marriage debate they shifted to panic mongering over trans people so they could shift the country right so they could eventually undo the gay marriage thing.

[Valmy]

Hey, you're the one who dunks on moderates.

All five of them.