German Federal Election 23rd February 2025

[crazy canuck]

It might be expensive, but it's not inadequate, and subsidizing daycare isn't as expensive as the lifetime and end-of-life healthcare costs of middle-aged third worlders. 

Childcare has been in short supply for at least the last 30 years, outside Quebec.  Maybe longer, but I can only speak to what I know about from first hand experience.

[Threviel]

Demographics wise immigration is not the answer either. In Sweden, once an immigrant family becomes integrated their demographic collapses like everyone else, I assume that holds true everywhere.

So either they are poor and part of the financial problem and a drain on finances or they become integrated and a part of the demographic problem.

Refugees and uneducated poor immigration solves no problems with regards to either economy or demographics.

[crazy canuck]

Sure, but if the immigration system is working properly, there is a steady stream of young educated workers coming into the country.  That is the theory upon which the Canadian consensus was built. Those young workers are likely to have at least 1 child, which also helps. If we are lucky they will have two. And the home run is they will have three.  But the underlying premise is the steady stream of young educated workers coming here.  As BB mentioned, that is what the points system was trying to screen for.

[Jacob]

IMO student visas --> citizenship is good, as long as there's a proper framework for the kind of student and the kind of education.

There are two main weak spots as it was set up, as I see it:

1) We've allowed our post-secondary schools to become dependent on tuition fees to fund their operations.

2) We've allowed the creation of post-secondary degree mills that operate to generate profit for private investors.

That created the incentive to open the gates massively, with little consideration for whether all potential students were appropriate.

But the basic idea of "young ambitious people getting educated and then staying in Canada as they begin their working lives" is fundamentally sound.

[crazy canuck]

IMO student visas --> citizenship is good, as long as there's a proper framework for the kind of student and the kind of education.

There are two main weak spots as it was set up, as I see it:

1) We've allowed our post-secondary schools to become dependent on tuition fees to fund their operations.

2) We've allowed the creation of post-secondary degree mills that operate to generate profit for private investors.

That created the incentive to open the gates massively, with little consideration for whether all potential students were appropriate.

But the basic idea of "young ambitious people getting educated and then staying in Canada as they begin their working lives" is fundamentally sound.

I don't think point 1 is necessarily bad.  Point 2 is where all the mischief has occurred.  The idea of young ambitious people becoming educated and staying in Canada is exactly what the system was supposed to do.  But that is not what happened.  Instead we got a bunch of people in on student visas (who were not necessarily young and who were not being educated) and who, once they obtained their Canadian citizenship after obtaining a fraudulent diploma from a diploma mill, brought over their parents, uncles and aunts.  All of which considerably contributed to the greying of our population.

[Threviel]

That basic is sound only as far as those young educated workers are not allowed to bring their relatives.

[Zanza]

It will be interesting in two or so decades when virtually all countries in the world will face demographic collapse. By then only central Africa and some utter shitholes like Afghanistan will have surplus working age population.

[crazy canuck]

That basic is sound only as far as those young educated workers are not allowed to bring their relatives.

As I argued with Neil, I think a good case can be made for parents. 

[crazy canuck]

It will be interesting in two or so decades when virtually all countries in the world will face demographic collapse. By then only central Africa and some utter shitholes like Afghanistan will have surplus working age population.

Well, yes.  The way we are going now, certainly.  But I have some hope that our economic policies will change so that life becomes comfortable (affordable) enough for couples to have children again.   

[Zanza]

It will be interesting in two or so decades when virtually all countries in the world will face demographic collapse. By then only central Africa and some utter shitholes like Afghanistan will have surplus working age population.

Well, yes.  The way we are going now, certainly.  But I have some hope that our economic policies will change so that life becomes comfortable (affordable) enough for couples to have children again.   

What makes you expect that? No country in the world has so far made such a turnaround. High fertility seems to only exist together with misery.

[Threviel]

The republicans might succeed with their misogynistic attempts. No contraceptives might be the answer.

[crazy canuck]

It will be interesting in two or so decades when virtually all countries in the world will face demographic collapse. By then only central Africa and some utter shitholes like Afghanistan will have surplus working age population.

Well, yes.  The way we are going now, certainly.  But I have some hope that our economic policies will change so that life becomes comfortable (affordable) enough for couples to have children again.   

What makes you expect that? No country in the world has so far made such a turnaround. High fertility seems to only exist together with misery.

The height of Canadian birth rates was during the good times of the late 50s and 60s.  Birth rates in the 70s declined a bit, but if we can get back to what, for some reason, is remembered as the bad old days, I would think that was a considerable improvement.

[Neil]

It might be expensive, but it's not inadequate, and subsidizing daycare isn't as expensive as the lifetime and end-of-life healthcare costs of middle-aged third worlders. 

Childcare has been in short supply for at least the last 30 years, outside Quebec.  Maybe longer, but I can only speak to what I know about from first hand experience.

Childcare being in short supply doesn't justify bringing in parents.  That's a permanent solution to a temporary problem.  Parents aren't a solution to the childcare shortage amoungst Canadian citizens, so why would we think importing more would help? 

I appreciate that the expense of childcare was a problem for you, but an immigrant bringing in their parents incurs costs in healthcare and income support that would be higher than subsidizing childcare, especially since you have to spend the money on childcare in any event.

[crazy canuck]

I am not sure you are understanding my point.  It isn't that childcare is expensive.  The point is that it is not available for all regardless of price.  If you don't believe me, do a quick search of the waiting lists.

[Threviel]

Child care is not the solution. We have almost free child care here and, well, it doesn't seem to matter much.