EURO 2024

[Jacob]

Denmark playing Germany next. Not super optimistic there, but I guess we'll see...

[FunkMonk]

Southgate's England are so boring good god

[Zanza]

Denmark playing Germany next. Not super optimistic there, but I guess we'll see...

Switzerland showed how to beat this team. If you disturb their short pass game, they have few other options.

[HVC]

Call me crazy, but I don't think englands going to bring it home this year.

[Grey Fox]

Call me crazy, but I don't think englands going to bring it home this year.

I don't know. 2 goals in 3 games with 2 ties. That's the kind of group record that brings championships.

[crazy canuck]

Southgate's England are so boring good god

So stupid question.  Is it the style the coach is making them play, or the players the coach selected or a combination of the two?

[FunkMonk]

Southgate's England are so boring good god

So stupid question.  Is it the style the coach is making them play, or the players the coach selected or a combination of the two?

The regular England watchers here can probably give you a much better answer but for me, all these players excel at their respective clubs. It's not the players, it's what their coach is telling them to do and how to play.

He isn't a great tactician and he has a pretty conservative style of play, which makes sense since the international game is much more conservative in general. It just makes for a turgid watch sometimes.

[Josephus]

Agree with FM. Man to man the England squad is as good as any, which is why they are highly rated. And they also do quite well in qualifying. But in tournament matches he has them play a very plodding style

[Zanza]

That story sounds familiar from earlier tournaments where England underperformed compared to expectations.

[Threviel]

Last time they were in the final...

They've massively overperformed under Southgate compared to almost every other time. Underperformed if judging by player quality perhaps, but overperformed when compared to normal English play.

[Sheilbh]

Last time they were in the final...

They've massively overperformed under Southgate compared to almost every other time. Underperformed if judging by player quality perhaps, but overperformed when compared to normal English play.

Yeah - semi-final, final, quarters is a pretty big outperformance from any England team I've known. Of course that does mean the expectation and pressure has grown as with Russia especially they went in with zero expectation - Southgate was seen pretty negatively (just a "yes man" for the FA) and it was the tournament after they got knocked out by Iceland.

I think he probably should have left after Qatar as that was the end of a "cycle" and everything he'd said had been about building to Qatar. But who knows.

The criticism in England has been less underperformance, because they haven't. More that it's conservative/boring and that he needs to let the players play - that may be tied to the overperformance of course.

So stupid question.  Is it the style the coach is making them play, or the players the coach selected or a combination of the two?

In part it's definitely the coach. I think Southgate is quite cautious and conservative, he's also quite rigid and not very good at reacting to changes quickly. I loved Carl Anka's description of him as someone who will follow a recipe exactly to the letter even as the pan is boiling over - most of the time it works but when it's not he doesn't respond and cannot add a little something to it

On the other hand - international football is often a bit more cautious and conservative because the players are only together a few weeks of the year so the complicated/intuitive stuff they have with their clubs just can't develop.

There are good players in the team. Kane was, I think, Bundesliga top scorer last year I think Bellingham was La Liga player of the year, there are a number of players who were a big part of City winning the Champion's League last season. I'm not sure what they are or aren't capable of together at an international level - this is a very English thing to say but I do think there's a little bit of a lack of leadership and communication on the pitch. I also don't think there's really many players in the squad who can come off the bench and change things (which is really difficult).

I think deciding not to include Grealish or Rashford in the squad were big decisions that were widely questioned here. I think that'll keep coming up if the performances stay this tepid.

[Josquius]

England's trouble is they're too unbalanced with a few positions having more than one top player. This results in players being picked and played out of position in a way that just doesn't work.

[Tamas]

I kinda feel like Parker coming on and being his usual savage Energizer bunny self highlighted that the other players werent that keen on breaking a sweat, but still I also blame Southgate for the likely demise of the Hungarian team.

[Sheilbh]

Fair - and the same is true with Gordon who is, if nothing else, a player who will run at people. Probably needs more than give minutes though. But I think that does go back to Southgate - I think he has a fixed idea of how the team should be set out and play - and generally his record is very good so he gets that right. But if it's not working or he needs to react I think he struggles and I think he does not like a "risky" player.

And the case for the defence which I've no doubt Southgate would make is that they're top of their group and they've kept two clean sheets. Tournament favourites who play thrilling football rarely end up winning - it's more often the teams who are defensively solid. I suspect he'd also point to France (and I think he is not dissimilar to Deschamps in style - which again can be painful when you look at the players France have and how you imagine they could play) - and the other big countries, like Italy who have also slightly laboured their way through the groups. And perhaps the point Southgate would make, is England have been really turgid and dull but rarely looked about to lose or wide open.

[Josquius]

Just have to hope the England team were treating the game like a friendly warm up because it was basically pointless and they've a big game later in the week.