New Paradox Tinto Game? EU5?

[crazy canuck]

I hope it won't be just another map painter and attempt to focus more on the simulation aspect, but I doubt that's the audience these days.

Based on what Johan has been saying, that is what they are attempting to do.   The fact that they have 2700+ locations in the game indicates they are moving away from the paint all provinces gameplay.

[Zanza]

Just means a world conquest with Ryukyu is even more tedious than before.

[Sheilbh]

All of this chat is just going to make me more disappointed in myself when I buy it on release

[Syt]

Well, I will probably get it, but I also expect I won't play it much. I put a lot of time into Vic3 and CK3, and even (by comparison) Stellaris.

Actually, going by Steam, I have played Age of Wonders 4 over three times as much as EU4 (280 vs. 85 hours). (CK3 has 600 hours, Stellaris 400 hours, and Victoria 3 800 hours - though in the latter case I'm guessing 100-200 were observer games to check performance, how mods affect game etc.). I still suck at all these games, though.

[Tamas]

I hope it won't be just another map painter and attempt to focus more on the simulation aspect, but I doubt that's the audience these days.

Based on what Johan has been saying, that is what they are attempting to do.   The fact that they have 2700+ locations in the game indicates they are moving away from the paint all provinces gameplay.

That's what I am hoping for but if you look at Imperator it has an insane number of provinces yet it is absolutely a genuine map-painter, or at least was when released. The pre-release stream of it when Johan was playing Egypt just burned into my mind and I know I referenced it often. Johan totally got lost in the "gameplay loop" of clicking stuff so he can continue conquering which let him click stuff to resume conquering etc, the community guy next to him was desperately trying to introduce some historical or narrative context into the clickfest but Johan was too busy to oblige.

Then again I also remember many years ago Johan declaring that he hates the ancient era so hopefully it was the case of him not giving a damn about the era.

[The Minsky Moment]

I hope it won't be just another map painter and attempt to focus more on the simulation aspect, but I doubt that's the audience these days.

Based on what Johan has been saying, that is what they are attempting to do.   

But if that's the goal, expanding the timeline isn't going to improve simulationism.

[Josquius]

I dunno. I guess there's the question for the historians. Where were the big 'mindset' shifts in history where the people of one year wouldn't be able to comprehend those of another.
It certainly seems the early start date interferes with at least one of those. There's another later too.

[Syt]

DOOM! DOOOOOOM!

[Valmy]

The problem is CK2 was following CK and was much better than CK right at launch. CK3 on the other hand...I still prefer CK2.

[HVC]

That's the problem with revenue by dlc. The new sequel of a game always has less features than the last iteration of the previous game.

In any regards I've been burned too many times, I finally learned my lesson. If I buy another PD game it'll be long after launch.

[Syt]

The problem is CK2 was following CK and was much better than CK right at launch. CK3 on the other hand...I still prefer CK2.

I can't go back to CK2. The UI hasn't aged well, and call me shallow, but I miss the 3d rulers and more engaging map. (Not to mention kinda half baked systems that were introduced and then never really updated, like merchant republics, or OP systems like bloodlines and secret societies.) YMMV

[Syt]

That said, I think there's a reason why I play other games over EU4. (And keep in mind, that's personal preference, YMMV substantially )

- CK3: Sure, you can play it as a mappainter. But you can also lean more into the RP aspects. Or you can set your own goals. And it's a game where if you have a streak of bad luck and lose some of your lands you can often still make a comeback.
- Stellaris: Sure, at the end it's mostly a map painter with a sagging mid/late game. However, the customization options the game gives you in creating your faction and playing to its character keep me quite interested (incidentally, same reason why I got hooked on AoW4 when it came out).
- Victoria 3: Sure, it's a game about map painting (if not directly through conquest/subjects then at least through markets), but at least it's attempting to somewhat model the societal change of the 19th and early 20th century, giving you some freedom in what you want to do. Communist Britain? Theocratic American Monarchy? Progressive liberal Austria-Hungary? You're welcome to try. It's flawed, but I enjoy it.

EU4 doesn't click for me in nearly the same way.

If EU5 moves more towards that direction, then maybe I can get back into it?

[Zanza]

I never really got into CK3, despite having played CK2/CK a lot. Not really sure why it does not click for me. Maybe I need to try again. The area which would interest me most, the HRE has no real own content though. Makes it a bit bland.

Stellaris is mainly about the early exploration phase for me and it is better there than the other games. But I think diplomacy in Stellaris sucks and the snowballing is too severe and that takes the fun in midgame.

Victoria with the never-ending construction cycle and strong bias towards liberal reforms feels repetitive to me.

EU4 has fairly different starts, quite a few sensible mechanics. I still play it more than the others.

[Tamas]

For what it's worth Victoria 3 is far less the "you CAN and definitely SHOULD build a 20th century Swedish social democracy ASAP, the game won't challenge it" thing that Vicky 2 was. Maybe the powergaming meta requires you to go full liberal but I found with some countries it's easier to keep uneducated apolitical masses rather than dealing with them being uppity. Or at the very least being slow and measured about lifting them up. You don't want to a starving pop having political ideas of its own.

[Solmyr]

OPB had a pretty successful Persia game keeping the unwashed masses uneducated. It's not the optimal playstyle, but very possible.