Dutch elections

[Grey Fox]

Isn't this the normal way things work after elections there?

Any sign of an alternative coalition building elsewhere excluding the fascists?

Jeez, it's not because you disagree with them that they are fascist.

Ah, "You just call everyone who disagrees with you a fascist".
Interesting how this always comes out when fascy views are being called fascist and its just never an issue with other disagreeable groups.

Problem is that you think everyone is a fascist. Ever wondered if you're not the one with the extremist views?

Except that evidently isn't true.
My distaste for Margaret Thatcher is well known I believe? Do I call her a fascist?

I think he was confusing you & I.

[Jacob]

There's been post-election poll apparently. Seems like it might be a bad idea to piss of the electorate by playing polical games. On the other hand: it's still early days and the Dutch electorate is one of the most volatile in western Europe.

How so? Who is playing political games and how is the pissed off electorate manifesting itself in the polls?

[Crazy_Ivan80]

https://www.peilingennederland.nl/alle-peilingen.html

seats: poll (elections)
PVV : 42 (37)
Links kartel : 22 (25)
NSC : 19 (20)
VVD : 16 (24)
D'66 : 11 (9)
BBB : 10 (7)
CDA : 6 (5)
SP : 5 (5)
VOLT : 3 (2)
CU : 3 (3)
SGP : 3 (3)
Denk : 3 (3)
FVD : 3 (3)
JA21 : 1 (1)

with polling being what it is, I'm not sure how credible these results are. But then again, the voters have blindsided the pollsters before.
Wilders seems to gaining more potential voters, VVD seems to be losing more. Again, it's poll and an early one at that but it appears as if a part of the people don't appreciate it when the right-wing doesn't work together

As for volatility: only a few months ago BBB was the big next thing and with election-time they weren't. So it seems the dutch voters are willing to cast their votes on new parties easily, searching for that party that'll -I guess- do what it promises. And then going to the next one if the previous ends up being a disappointment.
It does seem that in all this the 'establishment' parties continue their downwards trend. Which is something we've been seeing across Europe for the last 30 years or so? (maybe even longer, but now for certain parties the trend has gone on so long that some of them are but mere shadows, with no real successors ready yet).

In any case: the mood inside the EU is not positive with a recent study of the European Council on Foreign Relations indicating that about a third of it's citizens say things are going the right way, with 2 thirds saying the opposite

we'll see in a few months what's really going on

[Josquius]

Surely people in Europe saying things are going the wrong way is bad news for the far right, them being that wrong way

[Maladict]

Surely people in Europe saying things are going the wrong way is bad news for the far right, them being that wrong way

Get with the program Jos. Things going wrong means foreigners are to blame.

I'll be glad our crushing labor shortage will be solved as soon as we close our borders to people looking for work.

[crazy canuck]

Surely people in Europe saying things are going the wrong way is bad news for the far right, them being that wrong way

Get with the program Jos. Things going wrong means foreigners are to blame.

I'll be glad our crushing labor shortage will be solved as soon as we close our borders to people looking for work.

Our Federal government closed foreign worker visas for a period of time due in part to the theory that Canadians were not getting those jobs.  It was quickly realized that no Canadians were applying for those jobs and emergency visas starting getting issued about three months later.

[Tamas]

Surely people in Europe saying things are going the wrong way is bad news for the far right, them being that wrong way

Get with the program Jos. Things going wrong means foreigners are to blame.

I'll be glad our crushing labor shortage will be solved as soon as we close our borders to people looking for work.

Our Federal government closed foreign worker visas for a period of time due in part to the theory that Canadians were not getting those jobs.  It was quickly realized that no Canadians were applying for those jobs and emergency visas starting getting issued about three months later.

Same in the UK. Quickly turned out no Brit wanted to work on the fields for the pittance the farmers were willing and/or able to pay.

[Sheilbh]

Same in the UK. Quickly turned out no Brit wanted to work on the fields for the pittance the farmers were willing and/or able to pay.

I don't think it's the same in the UK.

The government's not ever closed foreign worker visas - in fact it's been pretty substantially liberalised. It's one of the reasons we have record high net migration right now.

Yeah, still well within the realm of normalcy.

Is the Netherlands a country where someone gets appointed as formateur to formally negotiate a government?

[Maladict]

Is the Netherlands a country where someone gets appointed as formateur to formally negotiate a government?

Yes, but we're not even there yet. We're now in the exploratory phase where someone is appointed to see which potential coalition should have a formateur appointed.

[Tamas]

Same in the UK. Quickly turned out no Brit wanted to work on the fields for the pittance the farmers were willing and/or able to pay.

I don't think it's the same in the UK.

The government's not ever closed foreign worker visas - in fact it's been pretty substantially liberalised. It's one of the reasons we have record high net migration right now.

Sure, Brexit was a non-event

[Sheilbh]

https://www.peilingennederland.nl/alle-peilingen.html

seats: poll (elections)
PVV : 42 (37)
Links kartel : 22 (25)
NSC : 19 (20)
VVD : 16 (24)
D'66 : 11 (9)
BBB : 10 (7)
CDA : 6 (5)
SP : 5 (5)
VOLT : 3 (2)
CU : 3 (3)
SGP : 3 (3)
Denk : 3 (3)
FVD : 3 (3)
JA21 : 1 (1)

And the latest:

EenVandaag Opiniepanel
@Opiniepanel
Nieuwste zetelpeiling van @EenVandaag en @IpsosNL:
PVV: 47 (+10)
GL-PvdA: 22 (-3)
VVD: 18 (-6)
NSC: 19 (-1)
D66: 9
BBB: 8 (+1)
CDA: 4 (-1)
SP: 3 (-2)
DENK: 4 (+1)
PvdD: 5 (+2)
FvD: 3
SGP: 3
CU: 3
Volt: 2
JA21: 0 (-1)

Shows the seats they'd win now and the increase from the election. I'm not sure if this is just what happens once a taboo has been broken. Or if it's a bit like the campaign Cummings described in the event of a second Brexit referendum which would just be on the slogan: "tell them again".

Not unrelatedly just saw the first French poll that actually had the top two parties as NUPES (assuming they survive) and RN - so a Melenchon-Le Pen run off (and I have zero doubt that the European preference would be for Le Pen). But this feels like a warning sign for the Netherlands (which has been a bit of a canary in the coal mine for Europe before) and Europe more generally - or at least for policy makers/people from the centre.

[Tamas]

Right or not it should be clear now that European population has been upset/unnerved by immigration and not talking about it was not the solution. I am not saying xenophobes should be catered for, but concerns even if incorrect must he addressed if they grow big enough.

[Josquius]

Right or not it should be clear now that European population has been upset/unnerved by immigration and not talking about it was not the solution. I am not saying xenophobes should be catered for, but concerns even if incorrect must he addressed if they grow big enough.

I'd say otherwise. We've talked about it endlessly- this was clearly the wrong approach, to just see the immigration as the core problem that had people unsettled, rather than actually focussing on the real issues that affect people's day to day.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Mass migration is a real issue that affects people.

[Duque de Bragança]

Not unrelatedly just saw the first French poll that actually had the top two parties as NUPES (assuming they survive) and RN - so a Melenchon-Le Pen run off (and I have zero doubt that the European preference would be for Le Pen). But this feels like a warning sign for the Netherlands (which has been a bit of a canary in the coal mine for Europe before) and Europe more generally - or at least for policy makers/people from the centre.

Very unlikely to survive at this point, thanks to Mélenchon, and the war in Gaza.