Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Syt]

One of the downsides of crying wolf about genocide is that you no longer have any condemnation left in reserve for when it actually becomes a genocide.  Which it sounds like it might, at least of the forced relocation variety.

What is the difference between attempted murder and murder?

"Attempted murder! Now honestly what is that? Do they give a Nobel prize for attempted chemistry?!"

[DGuller]

One of the downsides of crying wolf about genocide is that you no longer have any condemnation left in reserve for when it actually becomes a genocide.  Which it sounds like it might, at least of the forced relocation variety.

What is the difference between attempted murder and murder?

I think the more relevant analogy is the fictional case from the movie Double Jeopardy.  If someone is convicted of a murder that didn't even happen, they can now carry out that murder for real for no additional punishment.  Of course the real law doesn't work like that, but the concept is the same.  Israel already paid the price for committing a genocide that didn't actually happen, so they feel like they now get a free pass to commit the crime for which they already paid.

[The Minsky Moment]

Yes I'm sure.  Right now this is Trump's bullshit talk.

Article states that the request was made to Sudan and Somalia.  Sudan confirmed that it was made. 

And there is the statement from Smotrich about Israeli preparations for mass emigration. Also not denied from the PM's office.

This is quite a bit farther than a Trump social media dump.

[Jacob]

I think the more relevant analogy is the fictional case from the movie Double Jeopardy.  If someone is convicted of a murder that didn't even happen, they can now carry out that murder for real for no additional punishment.  Of course the real law doesn't work like that, but the concept is the same.  Israel already paid the price for committing a genocide that didn't actually happen, so they feel like they now get a free pass to commit the crime for which they already paid.

I don't think that Israel has already paid the price for committing a genocide (that didn't actually happen).

The Israel-ride-or-die supporters, of course, won't care; nor will the "Israel is a genocidal state" pro-Palestinians folks change their tune. But however many people and governments who were saying some variation of "Israel isn't actually committing genocide" will have to adjust to the new reality, if Israel actually pulls the trigger on ethnic cleansing.

[Valmy]

One of the downsides of crying wolf about genocide is that you no longer have any condemnation left in reserve for when it actually becomes a genocide.  Which it sounds like it might, at least of the forced relocation variety.

What is the difference between attempted murder and murder?

I think the more relevant analogy is the fictional case from the movie Double Jeopardy.  If someone is convicted of a murder that didn't even happen, they can now carry out that murder for real for no additional punishment.  Of course the real law doesn't work like that, but the concept is the same.  Israel already paid the price for committing a genocide that didn't actually happen, so they feel like they now get a free pass to commit the crime for which they already paid.

What price did they pay? Israel is not a pariah state. North Korea they are not.

A few toothless resolutions in the UN and a few unenforceable moves in the ICC are not serious consequences.

And if Israel is currently suffering the prices of committing genocide, well the price of genocide must be pretty low. Maybe everybody should do it.

[HVC]

Israel could never be a pariah because they were US backed. Now that America is hell bent on making themselves a pariah who knows what could happen.

[Razgovory]

One of the downsides of crying wolf about genocide is that you no longer have any condemnation left in reserve for when it actually becomes a genocide.  Which it sounds like it might, at least of the forced relocation variety.

What is the difference between attempted murder and murder?

I think the more relevant analogy is the fictional case from the movie Double Jeopardy.  If someone is convicted of a murder that didn't even happen, they can now carry out that murder for real for no additional punishment.  Of course the real law doesn't work like that, but the concept is the same.  Israel already paid the price for committing a genocide that didn't actually happen, so they feel like they now get a free pass to commit the crime for which they already paid.

What price did they pay? Israel is not a pariah state. North Korea they are not.

A few toothless resolutions in the UN and a few unenforceable moves in the ICC are not serious consequences.

And if Israel is currently suffering the prices of committing genocide, well the price of genocide must be pretty low. Maybe everybody should do it.

The same price that Sudan paid.

Yes I'm sure.  Right now this is Trump's bullshit talk.

Article states that the request was made to Sudan and Somalia.  Sudan confirmed that it was made. 

And there is the statement from Smotrich about Israeli preparations for mass emigration. Also not denied from the PM's office.

This is quite a bit farther than a Trump social media dump.

Yeah, it is still talk.  I don't think it is going to happen.  People may be able to legally emigrate from Palestine, but that's not quite the same.  Sort of like Christians in Lebanon emigrating to the US to escape the war or the people fleeing Vietnam after the Communists win.

Maybe I would take the this more seriously if the claims of the coming genocidal famine were true, or the claim that Palestinians would not be able to return to northern Gaza were true, or at the very least the people who spread these scurrilous claims were beaten with a sack of door knobs, but none of that happened.  You might be able to change my mind; I have a sack but you need to provide your own knobs.

[Admiral Yi]

But however many people and governments who were saying some variation of "Israel isn't actually committing genocide" will have to adjust to the new reality, if Israel actually pulls the trigger on ethnic cleansing.

I will have to adjust to a new reality in which Israel is not committing genocide.

[Valmy]

Yeah, it is still talk.  I don't think it is going to happen.  People may be able to legally emigrate from Palestine, but that's not quite the same.  Sort of like Christians in Lebanon emigrating to the US to escape the war or the people fleeing Vietnam after the Communists win.

Maybe I would take the this more seriously if the claims of the coming genocidal famine were true, or the claim that Palestinians would not be able to return to northern Gaza were true, or at the very least the people who spread these scurrilous claims were beaten with a sack of door knobs, but none of that happened.  You might be able to change my mind; I have a sack but you need to provide your own knobs.

I don't really care about changing your mind. It is pretty clear what my thoughts are. If this process actually starting is what it will take for you, then so be it.

[The Minsky Moment]

Yeah, it is still talk.  I don't think it is going to happen.

Hope is nice but trusting Trump and the Trump-adjacent gang running Israel not to follow through on their evil plans is a fool's game.  Maybe they get bored and it doesn't happen but maybe it does and then it's too late to put pressure on to stop it.  No one calls up government contacts in the Sudan to make inquiries just for shits and giggles.  There are people with real authority who want to make this happen.

[Razgovory]

Yeah, it is still talk.  I don't think it is going to happen.

Hope is nice but trusting Trump and the Trump-adjacent gang running Israel not to follow through on their evil plans is a fool's game.  Maybe they get bored and it doesn't happen but maybe it does and then it's too late to put pressure on to stop it.  No one calls up government contacts in the Sudan to make inquiries just for shits and giggles.  There are people with real authority who want to make this happen.

To do this would require quite a few soldiers, it's not easy to move two million people, especially armed people who do not want to be moved.  When we mobilized troops I will be concerned.

[Razgovory]

Yeah, it is still talk.  I don't think it is going to happen.  People may be able to legally emigrate from Palestine, but that's not quite the same.  Sort of like Christians in Lebanon emigrating to the US to escape the war or the people fleeing Vietnam after the Communists win.

Maybe I would take the this more seriously if the claims of the coming genocidal famine were true, or the claim that Palestinians would not be able to return to northern Gaza were true, or at the very least the people who spread these scurrilous claims were beaten with a sack of door knobs, but none of that happened.  You might be able to change my mind; I have a sack but you need to provide your own knobs.

I don't really care about changing your mind. It is pretty clear what my thoughts are. If this process actually starting is what it will take for you, then so be it.

I was really counting of the sack-beating thing.

[Valmy]

I was really counting of the sack-beating thing.

I don't know anything about any sack-beating. But I know Donald Trump has made inquiries to Syria and Egypt and other countries about taking Palestinians. I know he has received praise for these actions from the Israeli government.

That serious moves for ethnic cleansing have been made is a fact.

Not clear on any sack beatings.

[Admiral Yi]

To do this would require quite a few soldiers, it's not easy to move two million people, especially armed people who do not want to be moved.  When we mobilized troops I will be concerned.

I'm concerned we have a sitting president who thinks ethnically cleansing Gaza is a nifty idea.  Are you not?

[Razgovory]

Yeah, but I already don't like Trump.  Frankly, I'm staring to run out of fucks to give. I have to strictly ration my remaining fucks. Panic me with the first 600 genocide warnings, shame on you.  Panic me with 601, well you get the idea.  Maybe this can be rectified with the strategic use of door knobs, but nobody seems interested in that solution.