Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Zoupa]

I've been to Beirut and Lebanon 3 times. The average person knows which towns and neighborhoods are controlled by Hezbollah, but nobody knows where the militants actually congregate, like the actual buildings. Southern Beirut is also the poorest area, so the folks there can't just pack up and leave.

[Zoupa]

[Admiral Yi]

That's a little unfair to the Palestinians.  They didn't start 56.

[viper37]

I'm sure there's a big sign, like a 7-11 for Hezbollah supply depots.  Civilians of all affiliations can easily know where it is, and in case of doubt, just ask anyone in the street who that building belongs to and what is inside.  These people are usually the friendly type and readily answers questions like that.

That's an excellent point which I had not considered.  In the absence of big neon Hezbollah signs, how can they know?  I suggest the good people of Lebanon look for clues, such as scowling bearded men carrying AK47s and RPGs.

Assuming they are scowling bearded men to begin with, they likely aren't always carrying AK47 and RPGs while walking around.  Some may.  But how do you know which building is where where you see such dudes in a car?  And once you get the warning, where do you go in a few minutes?  Can you even leave the area to begin with?

If you live in an area in the US where there is heavy drug use, do you always know all the place where the drug is produced, stored and sold?  Are the Americans living in such areas complicit in the drug trade?

[The Minsky Moment]

I certainly wouldn't blame Lebanese civilians because Hezbollah uses them as human shields.

[crazy canuck]

I'm sure there's a big sign, like a 7-11 for Hezbollah supply depots.  Civilians of all affiliations can easily know where it is, and in case of doubt, just ask anyone in the street who that building belongs to and what is inside.  These people are usually the friendly type and readily answers questions like that.

That's an excellent point which I had not considered.  In the absence of big neon Hezbollah signs, how can they know?  I suggest the good people of Lebanon look for clues, such as scowling bearded men carrying AK47s and RPGs.

Assuming they are scowling bearded men to begin with, they likely aren't always carrying AK47 and RPGs while walking around.  Some may.  But how do you know which building is where where you see such dudes in a car?  And once you get the warning, where do you go in a few minutes?  Can you even leave the area to begin with?

If you live in an area in the US where there is heavy drug use, do you always know all the place where the drug is produced, stored and sold?  Are the Americans living in such areas complicit in the drug trade?

I think the stronger argument is that even if a person knew that they are operating close by what is that person supposed to do?

[OttoVonBismarck]

I'm sure there's a big sign, like a 7-11 for Hezbollah supply depots.  Civilians of all affiliations can easily know where it is, and in case of doubt, just ask anyone in the street who that building belongs to and what is inside.  These people are usually the friendly type and readily answers questions like that.

That's an excellent point which I had not considered.  In the absence of big neon Hezbollah signs, how can they know?  I suggest the good people of Lebanon look for clues, such as scowling bearded men carrying AK47s and RPGs.

Assuming they are scowling bearded men to begin with, they likely aren't always carrying AK47 and RPGs while walking around.  Some may.  But how do you know which building is where where you see such dudes in a car?  And once you get the warning, where do you go in a few minutes?  Can you even leave the area to begin with?

If you live in an area in the US where there is heavy drug use, do you always know all the place where the drug is produced, stored and sold?  Are the Americans living in such areas complicit in the drug trade?

Sounds like a big dose of "not our problem", and "tough shit."

[Admiral Yi]

Assuming they are scowling bearded men to begin with, they likely aren't always carrying AK47 and RPGs while walking around.  Some may.  But how do you know which building is where where you see such dudes in a car?  And once you get the warning, where do you go in a few minutes?  Can you even leave the area to begin with?

If you live in an area in the US where there is heavy drug use, do you always know all the place where the drug is produced, stored and sold?  Are the Americans living in such areas complicit in the drug trade?

What does a few minutes have to do with anything?  Netanyahu gave a general warning to stay away from Hezbollah.  He didn't say anything about the next few minutes.

I assume Lebanese civilians can leave those areas.  Do you have reason to believe they are being held at gunpoint?

I think most people who live near a crack house know about the crack house.  How is this relevant?  If I don't know where my pot is grown does that mean Israel will bomb me?

[Zoupa]

This has strong "why are you living in hurricane country" vibes.

[crazy canuck]

This has strong "why are you living in hurricane country" vibes.

How dare they live in a country torn apart by civil war, sectarian violence and an impotent federal government vibes more like.

[FunkMonk]

I've moved homes multiple times. Why don't they just hire some local college lads and get a U-Haul? Are they stupid?

[OttoVonBismarck]

It isn't Israel's problem that people live in the place that is daily launching rockets at their country. You guys are literally insane. The standard some of you hem and haw around is one where "well, you can't attack a country if they have civilians." Okay cool, I guess since every country has civilians, no more wars. But wait, when a country with civilians attacks another country, the victim can't counterattack because of the civilians present in the aggressor? That's absurd.

Something like 20,000 French civilians died in the first weeks of the Normandy invasion.

[crazy canuck]

It is possible to understand the predicament Israel is in on its Northern border and also have empathy for the non-combatants within Southern Lebanon.

[OttoVonBismarck]

If it was just empathy no one would care, your ilk use it as a cudgel to attempt to strip Israel of its right of self defense.

[The Minsky Moment]

Yeah this an odd sort of discussion.  Lebanon is a pretty small country and there aren't a lot of "safe" places to live.  Nor can most of the population simply retire to their estates in Provence.  Beirut is a target, the entire South is a target.  The northern part suffered from riots not the long ago due to massive unemployment and food shortages.  East is the marvelous safe haven of Assad's Syria.  West is a large body of salt water.

Collectively speaking the Lebanese screwed up by allowing Hezbollah a political foothold.  As individuals, it's hard to blame them personally for current events.

It's possible to hold all those ideas and yet still not blame Israel because the horrific terrorist group that keeps murdering their civilians hides like a pack of cowards in an inner city apartment bloc.