Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Razgovory]

The hypocrisy shit is so lame. It just tells me you have no actual substantial critique.

What hypocrisy tells me is that the objection is not based on principles, but rather principles are assigned to the objection after the fact. 

The close cousin is selective prosecution; sure, you can point to the law that everyone subjected to it has broken, but that doesn't mean that the law is applied to further the rule of law.  Rather, the law is being used as a cudgel to attack people you have chosen to attack for other reasons.

Well a big part is the media over here just doesn't give a shit about Sudan. So they don't hear about it. Where as the Israel-Palestine things has dominated American politics for fifty fucking years. It would be hard to NOT know what is going on over there. It probably helped get Donald Trump elected. Sudan? Yemen? Not so much.

But that is beside the point. If I am a campaigner to save stray dogs, it doesn't mean I am some kind of evil hypocrit because I don't save stray cats. That's stupid.

We've been killing Yemenis for a quarter century now.  We've been in deep with the Saudis since the 1930's. We had troops fighting in Syria.  So why is the Palestinian cause so salient?

[frunk]

But that is beside the point. If I am a campaigner to save stray dogs, it doesn't mean I am some kind of evil hypocrit because I don't save stray cats. That's stupid.

If you like dogs and are indifferent to cats that does not make you a hypocrite.  It's only when you claim you love all animals and ask us to join you on the grounds that all decent human beings love all animals that you become a hypocrite.

How?  You'll have to walk me through how your statement is hypocritical.  It might be wrong, stupid, or a lie but I wouldn't call it hypocritical. 

I can claim to love all animals but if I don't have the resources to save all animals and choose to focus on dogs strictly because it's something I can achieve I don't think that makes me a hypocrite.  In fact I think that makes you much better than someone who claims to love all animals but does nothing out of fear that helping some more than others would appear hypocritical. 

If I claimed to love all animals but secretly worked to hurt some that would be hypocritical.  If I claimed to be helping all animals but secretly only helped some I wouldn't even call that hypocritical, just deceptive and deceitful.  You aren't going against the stated principle of loving all animals, rather you are lying to people about what you are achieving.

[Admiral Yi]

If I claimed to love all animals but secretly worked to hurt some that would be hypocritical.  If I claimed to be helping all animals but secretly only helped some I wouldn't even call that hypocritical, just deceptive and deceitful.  You aren't going against the stated principle of loving all animals, rather you are lying to people about what you are achieving.

I don't see the difference between deceitful and hypocritical.  You're representing yourself in a way that you're not.  I have said nothing about achievements, only stated values.

[Richard Hakluyt]

A point to bear in mind during these endless discussions is that we are possibly paying to much attention to protestors and shit posters on X or whatever, this is a subset of the total population, perhaps 2% maybe 5%? They may not be representative of the general population and, also, there is a large helping of making a war or tragedy about themselves rather than the people suffering from it.

[frunk]

I don't see the difference between deceitful and hypocritical.  You're representing yourself in a way that you're not.  I have said nothing about achievements, only stated values.

I think there's a significant difference between being deceitful and hypocritical.  I can lie about all sorts of things, including achievements, without those being part of my stated values.  I could tell you the ball behind my back is green when it is actually blue but that's not being hypocritical (unless my stated values include not lying).

[OttoVonBismarck]

Protestors are whatever--what's important is recognizing that the majority of Palestinians by all polling measures and by looking at their celebrations, vigorously supported the October 7th attacks. These are evil people, Hamas isn't a differentiated evil, Hamas is a result of Palestinian evil.

The support for the October 7th attacks remains a majority position in the West Bank, and it only became a minority position in Gaza when the imbeciles there found out this wasn't going to be a few Israeli drone strikes but instead was them entering the "Find Out" phase of Islamic terror stupidity on a scale they hadn't previously experienced.

That highly suggests in a retrospective view after things have gotten back to some sense of normal, you can expect Gazans will be back to supporting the attacks by a majority again.

[crazy canuck]

A point to bear in mind during these endless discussions is that we are possibly paying to much attention to protestors and shit posters on X or whatever, this is a subset of the total population, perhaps 2% maybe 5%? They may not be representative of the general population and, also, there is a large helping of making a war or tragedy about themselves rather than the people suffering from it.

I am not so sure Otto is that much of an outlier

[Admiral Yi]

I think there's a significant difference between being deceitful and hypocritical.  I can lie about all sorts of things, including achievements, without those being part of my stated values.  I could tell you the ball behind my back is green when it is actually blue but that's not being hypocritical (unless my stated values include not lying).

I misspoke.  Hypocrisy is a subset of deceit.

[Tamas]

A point to bear in mind during these endless discussions is that we are possibly paying to much attention to protestors and shit posters on X or whatever, this is a subset of the total population, perhaps 2% maybe 5%? They may not be representative of the general population and, also, there is a large helping of making a war or tragedy about themselves rather than the people suffering from it.

I am not so sure Otto is that much of an outlier

I think RH means for example the people Raz and Yi get all worked up about all the time after reading some rando on social media.

Otto has just simply gone insane.

[grumbler]

I think RH means for example the people Raz and Yi get all worked up about all the time after reading some rando on social media.

Otto has just simply gone insane.

I think that Otto is just taking Goebbels's statements and substituting "Palestinians" for "Jews." It doesn't sound any better in the modern version than it did in the original.

[HVC]

I still say he's given into chatGPT boredom. Then again I've given him too much benefit in the past.

[Razgovory]

I think RH means for example the people Raz and Yi get all worked up about all the time after reading some rando on social media.

Otto has just simply gone insane.

I think that Otto is just taking Goebbels's Hamas statements and substituting "Jews" for "Palestinians." It doesn't sound any better in the modern version than it did in the original.

Fixed it for you.

[grumbler]

I think RH means for example the people Raz and Yi get all worked up about all the time after reading some rando on social media.

Otto has just simply gone insane.

I think that Otto is just taking Goebbels's Hamas statements and substituting "Jews" for "Palestinians." It doesn't sound any better in the modern version than it did in the original.

Fixed it for you.

Your "fix" makes zero sense, but you be you.

[Razgovory]

"Hamas hating Jews, that's unpossible!"

[grumbler]

"Hamas hating Jews, that's unpossible!"

If you say so...

(backs away)

(turns and runs)