And we're back!
Started by Zanza, October 07, 2023, 04:56:14 AM
QuoteThey're not comic book villains, they're actual villains who sincerely believe that it's their mission to eradicate the state of Israel and the jews living there. And after that: elsewhere.That ideology is quite clear as to what the end goal for the world is.Intent matters, regardless of wether or not the means are there.So stop being an apologist for Evil.
Quote from: Razgovory on October 07, 2023, 10:47:38 AMTyr, Corbyn is gone. You don't have to defend Hamas anymore.
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 07, 2023, 01:16:35 PMI agree with a lot of that.I also think part of this - and part of why this is such a strategic shock to Israel - is that Israel had largely nullified the threat from Hamas. Gaza was contained, they could fire a few rockets if they wanted and even in that context Iron Dome broadly protected them. Plus from what I understand there was confidence that Israel's intelligence was very good on what Hamas would do. I think, and I could be wrong on this, that that secure context is part of why Israeli politics has gone as it has - secure societies can afford to have massive confrontations over core constitutional issues, they can afford to send the IDF to mainly guard existing and growing settlements, they can pander more and more to ultra-Orthodox parties with broad religious draft exemptions etc. I could be wrong but I wonder if the response may be key to the future of Israeli politics. If he goes down the national unity route and security (and service) becomes a key issue again in a way it hasn't in recent years then that may well sideline the more extreme elements in Netanyahu's coalition. If not then you have very extreme parts of that coalition who even before today advocated what amounts to ethnic cleansing, and groups who represent those with draft exemptions in the IDF and I think it might head in quite a compustible (and bad) way.From a Hamas pov I think that "nullification" created a challenge. If they intended to continue they needed an ability to attack Israel that they couldn't just swat away. There have been the outrages against civilians but I almost wonder if as shocking to the Israeli context will be the border posts overrun, IDF equipment stolen - all in core, 1948 Israeli territory (not Golan, Sinai, West Bank settlements etc) from a threat they thought they'd basically managed. I think that's why Hezbollah weren't aware is precisely because Hamas needed surprise. It's almost existential - if your basis for existing is fighting Israel and Israel has basically penned you in and developed a shield that blocks attacks, then you either adapt or basically stop existing/cede your role. Perhaps part of it is also in a way an "action of the deed" thing: no matter how secure Israel feels, it isn't - Hamas (and others) will keep working on new ways to attack. It is probably also something that's going to be very difficult to repeat - though I imagine they're not unprepared in Gaza for retaliation which they will expect to be more than just a few airstrikes back.
QuotePrime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu proposes that opposition parties Yesh Atid and National Unity enter an emergency government following Hamas's devastating surprise attack Saturday morning.Netanyahu makes the offer during a meeting with Yesh Atid leader Yair Lapid and National Unity party leader Benny Gantz held earlier today, saying such a government would be the same in format as the Levi Eshkol government then-opposition leader Menachem Begin joined before the Six Day War in 1967.Gantz says he is considering entering such a government for the duration of the war but insists that government would "deal with security challenges alone" and in a manner that would allow "substantive partnership and influence over decision-making in relevant forums" for his party.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on October 07, 2023, 01:49:19 PMNational Unity Government is being formed:
Quote'Severe hostage situation' in two places in southern IsraelIsraeli army spokesman Richard Hecht has given reporters an update on the situation in southern Israel.Fighting is still going on at 22 separate locations on Israeli territory after Hamas militants attacked early on Saturday.He says a "severe hostage situation" is going on at Kibbutz Be'eri and Ofakim. Earlier, we reported that Hamas militants have taken both Israeli soldiers and civilians hostage, in an unprecedented situation.Israeli media report that Hamas militants are still fighting the army at the police station in Sderot. However, a number of other towns and communities have been secured, reports say.
Quote from: Josquius on October 07, 2023, 05:50:32 AMTraditional Islamic extremist shit of trying to bring on such a harsh Israeli response it brings the population onto their side/moves forward the apocalyptic war of civilizations?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 07, 2023, 02:31:55 PMQuote from: OttoVonBismarck on October 07, 2023, 01:49:19 PMNational Unity Government is being formed:I think that's good and agree with Gantz's reservation of what that means.But the more I read about what happened at different points the more I think that after a period of national unity and resolve - there are going to be very, very serious questions about how this happened for Netanyahu's government
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 07, 2023, 03:17:54 PMIt looks like Hamas is willing to sacrifice Gaza and perhaps themselves in order to prevent Saudi Arabia from regularizing its relationship with Israel. And as a side effect, I suppose, create chaos.
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