2024 US Presidential Elections Megathread

[grumbler]

Great to see you, Seedy.  This is not the first generation of college students that has claimed that "I am going to act, but the responsibility for the results of my action belongs to someone else."

I suspect that most of this is just virtue-signaling, and that these Arabs will vote in their own interests in the end.

[DGuller]

Looks more like vice-signaling to me.

[Jacob]

I'm not sure I understand the uncommitted protest in Michigan where people unhappy with Biden's policy with regards to Israel, voted uncommitted in Dem primsry to a tune to of 20%.

Unless they are threatening they will vote for Trump, or third party, or stay home, which in all cases would increase Trump's likelihood of winning - I'm not sure why this protest would matter. Would they be open to Trump victory to achieve their aims?

I think yes, that's the point. There are a bunch of people who feel very strongly about Palestine who also think Biden is simply the worst.

There seems to be part of the online sphere who are channelling their anti-Israeli rage into animus against non-Conservative parties in the West. Biden is absolutely a target in that regard, I think. I'm not sure how effective it is, but I guess this shows there's at least some impact.

[Tamas]

It's simple really. For some Muslims, pan-Muslim concerns are above their national-level concerns. They are not the first group of people with concerns and personal priorities reaching over borders, it is what it is. And then they get latchers-on from the far left who just want to be against everything and keep riding their moral high horse without the risk of being in power.

[CountDeMoney]

Far-left progressives have been practicing moral superiority suicide vest politics since Eugene McCarthy, that's nothing new.

[Josquius]

It's simple really. For some Muslims, pan-Muslim concerns are above their national-level concerns. They are not the first group of people with concerns and personal priorities reaching over borders, it is what it is. And then they get latchers-on from the far left who just want to be against everything and keep riding their moral high horse without the risk of being in power.

Yes.
But I do wonder how much thinking they're putting into this.
That they see the Palestinians survival as more important than the US' wellbeing - OK.
But that they'd see Trump as a better option for this thing that they do care about rather than Biden?
...hmm. Biden's pro-Israel stance certainly isn't perfect to their eyes, but its a hell of a lot more balanced than the usual stance of US presidents. In contrast to this Trump swung too far the other direction with the Jerusalem recognition et al.

I would hope its all wailing and gnashing that Biden sucks but when it comes to it faced with a choice between a moderate conservative and someone banging on the door to being a literal fascist...

[Razgovory]

Trump's party has been blocking aid to Israel and Muslim Americans tend to be quite conservative on social issues.  This story ran last summer.  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned

[Admiral Yi]

The most sympathetic spin I can put on this is they are playing a game of chicken.

[Jacob]

I tend to rate the effectiveness of propaganda and social media manipulation higher than most folks here - so it's probably no surprise that I think successful propaganda and social media manipulation campaigns are a key contributor here.

Last year a Palestinian-sympathizing friend treated me to an IMO rather unhinged rant about how Biden was fucking himself by not stopping Israel that then detoured through "they (politicians) are all equally corrupt" through "Epstein" to "Clinton is probably a pedophile".

I think the line of reasoning - or maybe rather the emotional through-line - for the anti-Biden Palestine sympathizers, basically follows that path:

1) There's no real difference between either party, the whole system is corrupt!
2) Biden is insufficiently pure, therefore he must be punished.
3) There's no real negative consequence to 2) because of 1).

[DGuller]

If Putin's Gaza diversion is what gets him the presidency in 2024 due to Michigan being the decisive swing state, then I'll just have to conclude that God really hates democracy and freedom.

[garbon]

If Putin's Gaza diversion is what gets him the presidency in 2024 due to Michigan being the decisive swing state, then I'll just have to conclude that God really hates democracy and freedom.

I'll say we get what we deserve...

[garbon]

Trump's party has been blocking aid to Israel and Muslim Americans tend to be quite conservative on social issues.  This story ran last summer.  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned

Sure but we also saw Trump's love in when he was president. Doesn't really matter Republican stance now but rather how he would feel in office.

[Admiral Yi]

1) There's no real difference between either party, the whole system is corrupt!
2) Biden is insufficiently pure, therefore he must be punished.
3) There's no real negative consequence to 2) because of 1).

If the whole system is corrupt, then Trump is also insufficiently pure.

[Razgovory]

Trump's party has been blocking aid to Israel and Muslim Americans tend to be quite conservative on social issues.  This story ran last summer.  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned

Sure but we also saw Trump's love in when he was president. Doesn't really matter Republican stance now but rather how he would feel in office.

White conservatives have a long history of fucking themselves over to get at Blacks.  Why can't Muslims do the same thing?

[Jacob]

If the whole system is corrupt, then Trump is also insufficiently pure.

Unfortunately, that is not the message that people are rallying around and propagating