Most American young men are single. Most young women are not.

[PDH]

I would guess that at least some of the problem starts with the whole "you have to talk to women rather than just fantasize about the cashier at Burger King" thing as well...

[Valmy]

I would guess that at least some of the problem starts with the whole "you have to talk to women rather than just fantasize about the cashier at Burger King" thing as well...

Don't bother women at work though.

[Barrister]

I would guess that at least some of the problem starts with the whole "you have to talk to women rather than just fantasize about the cashier at Burger King" thing as well...

There's certainly a side of "why risk rejection by talking to a girl when hardcore porn is just a few clicks away..."

[Valmy]

I would guess that at least some of the problem starts with the whole "you have to talk to women rather than just fantasize about the cashier at Burger King" thing as well...

There's certainly a side of "why risk rejection by talking to a girl when hardcore porn is just a few clicks away..."

I mean I had plenty of what passed for online porn back in the day (and before that I just had to do with catalogues and magazines and cable TV like any other 90s kid) and I don't recall ever thinking that that was a satisfying substitute to having actual relationships. I am also skeptical the hardcore nature of it makes any difference.

Also: it isn't like women don't consume porn and stuff that isn't technically porn but serves the same purpose. Yet they seem to be doing better.

So I don't know if removing access to internet porn somehow would turn this situation around.

[Barrister]

I would guess that at least some of the problem starts with the whole "you have to talk to women rather than just fantasize about the cashier at Burger King" thing as well...

There's certainly a side of "why risk rejection by talking to a girl when hardcore porn is just a few clicks away..."

I mean I had plenty of what passed for online porn back in the day (and before that I just had to do with catalogues and magazines and cable TV like any other 90s kid) and I don't recall ever thinking that that was a satisfying substitute to having actual relationships. I am also skeptical the hardcore nature of it makes any difference.

Also: it isn't like women don't consume porn and stuff that isn't technically porn but serves the same purpose. Yet they seem to be doing better.

So I don't know if removing access to internet porn somehow would turn this situation around.

I certainly don't think it's the whole story, but there's an element to it.

I mean when I "came of age" you had to go into grimy sex shops.  Later, probably when you were aroundthe same age, you could certainly find nude pics on the internet, but not the high-def videos you can get now.

[Josquius]

That's what always pissed me off. There's still a social expectation for men to be the ones to do the work despite women being the ones with the higher standards.
Women do the approaching then there's a lot less hurt in the world.

[Valmy]

I would guess that at least some of the problem starts with the whole "you have to talk to women rather than just fantasize about the cashier at Burger King" thing as well...

There's certainly a side of "why risk rejection by talking to a girl when hardcore porn is just a few clicks away..."

I mean I had plenty of what passed for online porn back in the day (and before that I just had to do with catalogues and magazines and cable TV like any other 90s kid) and I don't recall ever thinking that that was a satisfying substitute to having actual relationships. I am also skeptical the hardcore nature of it makes any difference.

Also: it isn't like women don't consume porn and stuff that isn't technically porn but serves the same purpose. Yet they seem to be doing better.

So I don't know if removing access to internet porn somehow would turn this situation around.

I certainly don't think it's the whole story, but there's an element to it.

I mean when I "came of age" you had to go into grimy sex shops.  Later, probably when you were around the same age, you could certainly find nude pics on the internet, but not the high-def videos you can get now.

I guess the assumption you are giving is that somehow high-def videos provide something emotionally and physically satisfying that cheesecake late night cable films and Victoria Secret catalogues could not. I don't know.

The main difference between now and then is not that. It is the fact you can go to...um...Only Fans I guess (I have to admit I am a little out of the loop now) and send messages and chat to the performers and they will answer back. That has a little "fall in love with the stripper" vibe that I guess can create the illusion that a beautiful woman cares about you. That is something that is really different.

[Barrister]

I guess the assumption you are giving is that somehow high-def videos provide something emotionally and physically satisfying that cheesecake late night cable films and Victoria Secret catalogues could not. I don't know.

The main difference between now and then is not that. It is the fact you can go to...um...Only Fans I guess (I have to admit I am a little out of the loop now) and send messages and chat to the performers and they will answer back. That has a little "fall in love with the stripper" vibe that I guess can create the illusion that a beautiful woman cares about you. That is something that is really different.

Emotionally satisfying?  Obviously not.

Physically satisfying?  As in easier to masturbate to?  Yup, that's my hypothesis.

[Valmy]

Emotionally satisfying?  Obviously not.

Physically satisfying?  As in easier to masturbate to?  Yup, that's my hypothesis.

Difficulty masturbating was never a problem I encountered  I don't know if it is more satisfying just because the quality of the porn is higher.

But hey it might play a role. I wouldn't know. By the time Hi Def porn became easily available I was already married.

[Valmy]

That's what always pissed me off. There's still a social expectation for men to be the ones to do the work despite women being the ones with the higher standards.
Women do the approaching then there's a lot less hurt in the world.

This is a huge reason why I found online dating really nice. The women will let you know if they like what they see in a way that is not as up to interpretation as when you are out there in the wild. My wife, for example, approached me first. I would be willing to bet the odds of success are astronomically higher when the woman is interested first.

[Barrister]

That's what always pissed me off. There's still a social expectation for men to be the ones to do the work despite women being the ones with the higher standards.
Women do the approaching then there's a lot less hurt in the world.

This is a huge reason why I found online dating really nice. The women will let you know if they like what they see in a way that is not as up to interpretation as when you are out there in the wild. My wife, for example, approached me first. I would be willing to bet the odds of success are astronomically higher when the woman is interested first.

Yeah, online dating was the bomb.  I mean you might still get rejected, but at least you know the woman is looking for a partner and isn't going to get offended by you sending her a message.

[Valmy]

Yeah, online dating was the bomb.  I mean you might still get rejected, but at least you know the woman is looking for a partner and isn't going to get offended by you sending her a message.

Yeah so with access to this amazing tool that lets you get in touch with people who are open to meeting somebody new, it is kind of weird that the younger generation is having so many problems.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah, online dating was the bomb.  I mean you might still get rejected, but at least you know the woman is looking for a partner and isn't going to get offended by you sending her a message.

It is insane how quickly that's gone from a gag, to normal, to the norm. Thinking of my friend's I think only two maybe three didn't meet their partner through an app.

There is also Bumble which I believe works by the woman messaging first.

[Barrister]

It is insane how quickly that's gone from a gag, to normal, to the norm. Thinking of my friend's I think only two maybe three didn't meet their partner through an app.

There is also Bumble which I believe works by the woman messaging first.

If I make the assumption that many of your friends are gay that might explain why...

[Sheilbh]

If I make the assumption that many of your friends are gay that might explain why...

Not really - I was thinking of friends from university which are fairly mixed. Couple of gays but almost all the straight couple too - the ones who aren't either got together or knew each other at university or before Tinder, or have the classic friend introduction.

In stereotype busting one of my gay friends did meet his husband on an app but they were also the first to settle down and the first to get married.