Who's the best basketball player of all time?

Started by jimmy olsen, January 17, 2023, 08:49:38 PM

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Who's the best basketball player of all time

Wilt Chamberlain
1 (5.3%)
Kareem Abdul Jabar
4 (21.1%)
Magic Johnson
1 (5.3%)
Larry Bird
1 (5.3%)
Lebron James
1 (5.3%)
Bill Russel
2 (10.5%)
Michael Jordan
9 (47.4%)

Total Members Voted: 19

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2023, 03:32:42 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 18, 2023, 03:28:53 AMNow getting to my point: is there any player that in his prime was at least as good as the ones listed but was forced out of the game early by injury or death or whatever, thus unable to rack up total numbers?

Bill Walton's foot split open early in his career and he continued to play but at a much lesser level.
Eh... he was averaging ~ 18 points and 13 rebounds a game. A solid all star, but not the greatest ever.
Pistol Pete Marovich is probably the best player to have his career cut short by injury. Still wouldn't put him on the level with the six names I put on this list, but definitely a top 20 player.
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mongers

Is there a talented Brit netball player who'll qualify for the poll? :brit:
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Barrister

Quote from: mongers on January 18, 2023, 09:10:12 AMIs there a talented Brit netball player who'll qualify for the poll? :brit:

On a related note I thought about shilling for Canadian Steve Nash, but pretty sure he'd be considered just a step below the guys mentioned.
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crazy canuck

#18
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 18, 2023, 09:01:19 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2023, 03:32:42 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 18, 2023, 03:28:53 AMNow getting to my point: is there any player that in his prime was at least as good as the ones listed but was forced out of the game early by injury or death or whatever, thus unable to rack up total numbers?

Bill Walton's foot split open early in his career and he continued to play but at a much lesser level.
Eh... he was averaging ~ 18 points and 13 rebounds a game. A solid all star, but not the greatest ever.
Pistol Pete Marovich is probably the best player to have his career cut short by injury. Still wouldn't put him on the level with the six names I put on this list, but definitely a top 20 player.

The point you are missing is that those averages are over his whole career. He suffered significant injuries to his foot in the first few years of his career, and so the years after the injury significantly brings his average down from what they otherwise would have been.

I'm not sure Larry Byrd should be on this list. But he is certainly one of the players that was impacted by injury. There are a lot of games during the championship runs of the Celtics where he had to sit out a lot of minutes because of back pain.
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celedhring

Quote from: Barrister on January 18, 2023, 10:39:17 AM
Quote from: mongers on January 18, 2023, 09:10:12 AMIs there a talented Brit netball player who'll qualify for the poll? :brit:

On a related note I thought about shilling for Canadian Steve Nash, but pretty sure he'd be considered just a step below the guys mentioned.

Steve Nash is without a doubt the Canuck GOAT and a damn good player, but yeah, he's a few steps below the ones discussed here.

Olajuwon is probably the foreign NBA GOAT. But people like Doncic, Antetokoumpo and Jokic have a chance of passing over him when it's all said and done. Christ, Jokic is such a wickedly fun player to watch.

OttoVonBismarck

Voted Jordan but I don't really know enough about basketball to be sure of it.

The Larch

Quote from: celedhring on January 18, 2023, 11:29:04 AMOlajuwon is probably the foreign NBA GOAT.

I'd break a lance for Dirk Nowitzki, at least in terms of accomplishments. When their careers are over I expect the current crop (Anteto, Doncic etc al.) to have overcome them both.

Valmy

Quote from: crazy canuck on January 18, 2023, 11:01:29 AMI'm not sure Larry Byrd should be on this list. But he is certainly one of the players that was impacted by injury. There are a lot of games during the championship runs of the Celtics where he had to sit out a lot of minutes because of back pain.

Russell, Chamberlain, Bird, and Magic are all in that area of top 10 players of all time but just a notch below Kareen, Lebron, and Jordan IMO. Obviously I think Kareem is 1 and Jordan and Lebron are 2a and 2b but reasonable minds can disagree.
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grumbler

Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on January 18, 2023, 12:30:15 PMVoted Jordan but I don't really know enough about basketball to be sure of it.

Same.  I'd have voted Jordan if he was a choice when I voted.
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crazy canuck

Quote from: Valmy on January 18, 2023, 12:35:35 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 18, 2023, 11:01:29 AMI'm not sure Larry Byrd should be on this list. But he is certainly one of the players that was impacted by injury. There are a lot of games during the championship runs of the Celtics where he had to sit out a lot of minutes because of back pain.

Russell, Chamberlain, Bird, and Magic are all in that area of top 10 players of all time but just a notch below Kareen, Lebron, and Jordan IMO. Obviously I think Kareem is 1 and Jordan and Lebron are 2a and 2b but reasonable minds can disagree.

I agree with Chamberlain, Bird and Magic being in the grouping just below the best of all time.  But I would put Russell in the grouping of the best of all time along with Jordan and Kareem.  The thing those players had that Lebron does not is they made the players around them better.  Lebron is all about hero ball and so that disqualifies him from being the best ever.
I want you to panic

https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2019/jan/25/i-want-you-to-panic-16-year-old-greta-thunberg-issues-climate-warning-at-davos-video

"Woke" is now almost exclusively used by those who seek to deride it, those who chafe at the activism from which it sprang. Opponents to the idea are seeking to render it toxic. They use it to stand in for change itself, for evolution, for an accurate assessment of history and society that makes them uncomfortable and deflates their hagiographic view of American history.

celedhring

#25
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 18, 2023, 02:31:10 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 18, 2023, 12:35:35 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 18, 2023, 11:01:29 AMI'm not sure Larry Byrd should be on this list. But he is certainly one of the players that was impacted by injury. There are a lot of games during the championship runs of the Celtics where he had to sit out a lot of minutes because of back pain.

Russell, Chamberlain, Bird, and Magic are all in that area of top 10 players of all time but just a notch below Kareen, Lebron, and Jordan IMO. Obviously I think Kareem is 1 and Jordan and Lebron are 2a and 2b but reasonable minds can disagree.

I agree with Chamberlain, Bird and Magic being in the grouping just below the best of all time.  But I would put Russell in the grouping of the best of all time along with Jordan and Kareem.  The thing those players had that Lebron does not is they made the players around them better.  Lebron is all about hero ball and so that disqualifies him from being the best ever.

I disagree, what makes LeBron great is that he's a very good passer, not just an iso scorer. So if the defense focuses on him, he'll find a free teammate. Many second and third stringers had career years playing alongside him. He's an extremely smart player.

crazy canuck

Quote from: celedhring on January 18, 2023, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 18, 2023, 02:31:10 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 18, 2023, 12:35:35 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 18, 2023, 11:01:29 AMI'm not sure Larry Byrd should be on this list. But he is certainly one of the players that was impacted by injury. There are a lot of games during the championship runs of the Celtics where he had to sit out a lot of minutes because of back pain.

Russell, Chamberlain, Bird, and Magic are all in that area of top 10 players of all time but just a notch below Kareen, Lebron, and Jordan IMO. Obviously I think Kareem is 1 and Jordan and Lebron are 2a and 2b but reasonable minds can disagree.

I agree with Chamberlain, Bird and Magic being in the grouping just below the best of all time.  But I would put Russell in the grouping of the best of all time along with Jordan and Kareem.  The thing those players had that Lebron does not is they made the players around them better.  Lebron is all about hero ball and so that disqualifies him from being the best ever.

I disagree, what makes LeBron great is that he's a very good passer, not just an iso scorer. So if the defense focuses on him, he'll find a free teammate. Many second and third stringers had career years playing alongside him. He's an extremely smart player.

Who on the Lakers has he made better in your estimation?
I want you to panic

https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2019/jan/25/i-want-you-to-panic-16-year-old-greta-thunberg-issues-climate-warning-at-davos-video

"Woke" is now almost exclusively used by those who seek to deride it, those who chafe at the activism from which it sprang. Opponents to the idea are seeking to render it toxic. They use it to stand in for change itself, for evolution, for an accurate assessment of history and society that makes them uncomfortable and deflates their hagiographic view of American history.

celedhring

Quote from: crazy canuck on January 18, 2023, 03:11:51 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 18, 2023, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 18, 2023, 02:31:10 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 18, 2023, 12:35:35 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 18, 2023, 11:01:29 AMI'm not sure Larry Byrd should be on this list. But he is certainly one of the players that was impacted by injury. There are a lot of games during the championship runs of the Celtics where he had to sit out a lot of minutes because of back pain.

Russell, Chamberlain, Bird, and Magic are all in that area of top 10 players of all time but just a notch below Kareen, Lebron, and Jordan IMO. Obviously I think Kareem is 1 and Jordan and Lebron are 2a and 2b but reasonable minds can disagree.

I agree with Chamberlain, Bird and Magic being in the grouping just below the best of all time.  But I would put Russell in the grouping of the best of all time along with Jordan and Kareem.  The thing those players had that Lebron does not is they made the players around them better.  Lebron is all about hero ball and so that disqualifies him from being the best ever.

I disagree, what makes LeBron great is that he's a very good passer, not just an iso scorer. So if the defense focuses on him, he'll find a free teammate. Many second and third stringers had career years playing alongside him. He's an extremely smart player.

Who on the Lakers has he made better in your estimation?

He's made Anthony Davies (a very good player on his own, mind) look like an MVP level player when they have been able to play regularly together.

He's sixth all time in assists, he's always been a willing passer.

crazy canuck

As you have said, Anthony Davis was always a good player. He was a superstar in college and the pros, long before he teamed up with LeBron. 

I think there is a difference between someone who gets lots of assists by drawing defenders to them, and making the players around them better. All good offensive players draw double teams and pass out of them for an assist.  That  is what Lebron does. And because he plays so much hero ball, it is not surprising that he has good assist numbers when drawing the extra defender.

What I am talking about is making their team mates better by just being on the team - being a great motivator (Lebron is a great whiner); creating scoring opportunities for others as primary scorers on a play (this was Nash's and Kareem's great ability); and playing great team defence. Granted that is a lost art in most of today's NBA. 

I think Russell was the greatest of all time, because in addition to his amazing stats, he was the soul of his teams.
I want you to panic

https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2019/jan/25/i-want-you-to-panic-16-year-old-greta-thunberg-issues-climate-warning-at-davos-video

"Woke" is now almost exclusively used by those who seek to deride it, those who chafe at the activism from which it sprang. Opponents to the idea are seeking to render it toxic. They use it to stand in for change itself, for evolution, for an accurate assessment of history and society that makes them uncomfortable and deflates their hagiographic view of American history.

grumbler

Quote from: crazy canuck on January 18, 2023, 04:39:38 PMAs you have said, Anthony Davis was always a good player. He was a superstar in college and the pros, long before he teamed up with LeBron. 

I think there is a difference between someone who gets lots of assists by drawing defenders to them, and making the players around them better. All good offensive players draw double teams and pass out of them for an assist.  That  is what Lebron does. And because he plays so much hero ball, it is not surprising that he has good assist numbers when drawing the extra defender.

What I am talking about is making their team mates better by just being on the team - being a great motivator (Lebron is a great whiner); creating scoring opportunities for others as primary scorers on a play (this was Nash's and Kareem's great ability); and playing great team defence. Granted that is a lost art in most of today's NBA. 

I think Russell was the greatest of all time, because in addition to his amazing stats, he was the soul of his teams.

Russel's career is also impressive because he did it when only the top 150 or so basketball players in the country even made an NBA team.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

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