2022 Midterm Election MEGATHREAD

[Admiral Yi]

As, you say, I think in a democracy it's an artificial distinction. But I just think the angry slogans are actually the essential part of politics in a democratic society. If it's just policies you're in a dictatorship - possibly a terribly benign one with wonderful policies, but not a democracy.

It seems weird that the bit of politics that is most looked down on is the bit about voters.

Disagree.  Voting without the angry slogans is still democracy.

[Sheilbh]

Disagree.  Voting without the angry slogans is still democracy.

Yeah and the immaculate conception is still a pregnancy. I just wouldn't use it to set expectations.

I think the policies create the divisions - they're not artificial. We wouldn't all come together and agree on everything because people have profoundly different values, goals, ideas, beliefs (it's why I'm a little dubious whenever people call for citizens' assemblies as a solution to everything). That's the point of democracy - it allows for opposing visions and ideologies to operate within the same system and exchange power peacefully within that system. The polarisation is to an extent inherent in the system because it's about accommodating difference peacefully.

That's why I think the decline in loser's consent is so worrying in the US - to my mind the GOP are opting out of the core of that system and democracy. Their direction is that their opponents are cheating and too dangerous to allow the system to operate as normal/if it was operating they would win; that in turn makes Democrats raise exactly the same issues, but accurately. I don't know how a society gets out of that situation.

[Admiral Yi]

Yeah and the immaculate conception is still a pregnancy. I just wouldn't use it to set expectations.

I think the policies create the divisions - they're not artificial. We wouldn't all come together and agree on everything because people have profoundly different values, goals, ideas, beliefs (it's why I'm a little dubious whenever people call for citizens' assemblies as a solution to everything). That's the point of democracy - it allows for opposing visions and ideologies to operate within the same system and exchange power peacefully within that system. The polarisation is to an extent inherent in the system because it's about accommodating difference peacefully.

That's why I think the decline in loser's consent is so worrying in the US - to my mind the GOP are opting out of the core of that system and democracy. Their direction is that their opponents are cheating and too dangerous to allow the system to operate as normal/if it was operating they would win; that in turn makes Democrats raise exactly the same issues, but accurately. I don't know how a society gets out of that situation.

I'm not entirely sure where you're going.

I was contesting your assertion that without angry slogans it's a dictatorship, whereas I think voting is the one necessary component of democracy.

As best as I can figure, you're going on about angry slogans being an indication of differing opinions and perspectives, whereas I'm saying differing opinions are a given and a democratic society adjudicates those differences at the ballot box.

****

Reports I'm hearing on NPR and seeing on CNN look dire.  Red wave.

[OttoVonBismarck]

voting is the one necessary component of democracy

I believe every modern dictatorship features voting.

[Jacob]

voting is the one necessary component of democracy

I believe every modern dictatorship features voting.

I don't think Saudi Arabia does? Then again, maybe it's not very modern/

[OttoVonBismarck]

Saudi Arabia isn't a dictatorship, and they do have local elections.

[Jacob]

Saudi Arabia isn't a dictatorship, and they do have local elections.

I stand corrected.

[Jacob]

I'm not entirely sure where you're going.

I think Sheilbh's point is that democracy without angry slogans is a nice ideal, but not something that happens in actual reality.

Which I guess raises the question - are there examples of functioning democracies where there's been an absence of angry slogans (at least for some period of time)?

[FunkMonk]

We elected our state's first black governor and legalized marijuana. Pretty good night for funkmonk.

[Admiral Yi]

I believe every modern dictatorship features voting.

I did not say necessary and sufficient.

[Admiral Yi]

I think Sheilbh's point is that democracy without angry slogans is a nice ideal, but not something that happens in actual reality.

Except he didn't say a nice ideal, he said without them you have dictatorship.

[Razgovory]

Pot legalization is winning here.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I think pot legalization won't lose many statewide referendums, some of the hardcore anti-pot Southern states have no initiative process so it will likely remain illegal there indefinitely. But even somewhat MAGA Republicans are fairly against the whole pot criminalization regime.

[Admiral Yi]

Do you get stoned Raz?

[Jacob]

I think Sheilbh's point is that democracy without angry slogans is a nice ideal, but not something that happens in actual reality.

Except he didn't say a nice ideal, he said without them you have dictatorship.

I believed he clarified with: "yeah and the immaculate conception is still a pregnancy. I just wouldn't use it to set expectations."