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Iranian Protests

Started by Jacob, September 20, 2022, 12:08:50 AM

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Jacob

#30
Reports of a number of deaths in Iran. Here's one of the regime's victims: https://twitter.com/Omid_M/status/1573145976147410944

Undercover morality police officer slaps a woman, but it doesn't work out that well for him:
https://twitter.com/FridaGhitis/status/1573098613089374208

HVC

Probably should have just taken his beating without trying the peperspray. can't imagine it made the situation better for him.
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

Crazy_Ivan80

Quote from: Jacob on September 23, 2022, 01:21:08 PMReports of a number of deaths in Iran. Here's one of the regime's victims: https://twitter.com/Omid_M/status/1573145976147410944

Undercover morality police officer slaps a woman, but it doesn't work out that well for him:
https://twitter.com/FridaGhitis/status/1573098613089374208

as just protesting is not going to yield anything (the regime knows full well that the protesters will cave when sufficient violence is applied, and the regime is all to willing to apply that amount) I fear that the protesters will have to be willing to apply equal if not higher amounts of violence.
So instead of just giving that guy a beating and letting him get away, giving him a beating that puts him into an early grave. Over and over again. But that's a difficult thing to do.
And we all know where that leads...

So I don't think there's any good way out of that situation

(and moral support from western 'progressives' may not be that forthcoming since so many of those like the muslim votes too much (and those voters are usually reactionary)

Barrister

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 23, 2022, 02:37:50 PM(and moral support from western 'progressives' may not be that forthcoming since so many of those like the muslim votes too much (and those voters are usually reactionary)

WTF?

Any Iranian muslim voters are almost certainly in the west because they hate the Mullah's regime.

Any non-Iranian Muslim voters hate the Mullah's regime because they're Iranian, and Iran/Persia has long had a rivalry with most of the rest of the islamic world.

I think there's vanishingly little support in the west amongst either muslim or non-muslim voters for the current Iranian government.
Quote from: crazy canuckBB's treatment is consistent with one who defends positions taken by the conservative wing of the Conservatives.

Valmy

The West generally seems slow on this story but I suspect it is the Iranians riot fatigue that Yi was expressing earlier. I don't think people are afraid that Muslims will be turning out to support the Mullahs.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Valmy on September 23, 2022, 07:03:17 PMThe West generally seems slow on this story but I suspect it is the Iranians riot fatigue that Yi was expressing earlier. I don't think people are afraid that Muslims will be turning out to support the Mullahs.

To clarify, I wasn't talking about riot fatigue so much as disillusionment with the shitshows they come up with after the autocracies are toppled.  Egypt, shitshow.  Libya, shitshow.  Iraq, shitshow.  Tunisia is best in show and they're not that much to brag about.

crazy canuck

Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2022, 02:46:01 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 23, 2022, 02:37:50 PM(and moral support from western 'progressives' may not be that forthcoming since so many of those like the muslim votes too much (and those voters are usually reactionary)

WTF?

Any Iranian muslim voters are almost certainly in the west because they hate the Mullah's regime.

Any non-Iranian Muslim voters hate the Mullah's regime because they're Iranian, and Iran/Persia has long had a rivalry with most of the rest of the islamic world.

I think there's vanishingly little support in the west amongst either muslim or non-muslim voters for the current Iranian government.

Agreed, also, as much as it may contradict the world view of some here, some of the most progressive people I have known are Muslims who are the children and grandchildren of the Iranians who left Iran during and after the revolution.

One of those was a young man who was a close friend of one of my sons.  That young man was killed when the Iranians shot down a passenger jet in 2019. It is beyond ignorant to suggest the Iranian diaspora in this country is in any way supportive of the Iranian government.



I want you to panic

https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2019/jan/25/i-want-you-to-panic-16-year-old-greta-thunberg-issues-climate-warning-at-davos-video

"Woke" is now almost exclusively used by those who seek to deride it, those who chafe at the activism from which it sprang. Opponents to the idea are seeking to render it toxic. They use it to stand in for change itself, for evolution, for an accurate assessment of history and society that makes them uncomfortable and deflates their hagiographic view of American history.

FunkMonk

Yes but, you see, Muslims are reactionary.
Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.

Crazy_Ivan80

#38
The European experience with muslims is a tad different.
And from observations in my own country I see that those few muslims (be they sunny or shia) who are truly progressive recieve a lot of flak from other muslims and people who claim to be progressive for attacking the faith.
Let's call it the Hirsi Ali experience, as that name is also known on the other side of the Atlantic.
So, while they may not like the mullahs, don't expect to much moral support for people trying to put religion in its place.
That support is only for people dealing with christianity.

Threviel

I've always had hope for Iran. The population is okish educated, there is a somewhat functioning parliamentary democracy buried under all that religious crap and they are used to voting and political parties. If any middle eastern nation (apart from Israel that is) were to go to a functioning democracy my money would be on Iran.

But the chance of that is very small unfortunately. And if the mullahs fall Iran would probably immediately be torn apart by ethnic and religious violence.

But there is a chance, which is more than can be said about most other middle eastern states.

Threviel

And let's not forget that the Iranians almost always vote progressive in those few elections where progressives are allowed to run.

Valmy

Quote from: FunkMonk on September 23, 2022, 09:08:38 PMYes but, you see, Muslims are reactionary.

I mean they can be culturally, but usually not in support of the regimes they fled. There are some exceptions like the Turks often are Erdogan fans I understand.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Valmy on September 24, 2022, 09:49:35 AMI mean they can be culturally, but usually not in support of the regimes they fled. There are some exceptions like the Turks often are Erdogan fans I understand.

I think Pakistanis in Britain might fit that category too.

Berkut

I generally feel like Muslims (in this sense) are like Pilgrims. They might flee being persecuted, but that doesn't mean they become progressive. They just don't want to be persecuted themselves. That doesn't change them into becoming generally permissive.

I mean, it's religion. It's not like there isn't a well established history of how, generally, religious groups act under these circumstances.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

select * from users where clue > 0
0 rows returned

crazy canuck

#44
Quote from: Berkut on September 24, 2022, 11:55:21 AMI generally feel like Muslims (in this sense) are like Pilgrims. They might flee being persecuted, but that doesn't mean they become progressive. They just don't want to be persecuted themselves. That doesn't change them into becoming generally permissive.

I mean, it's religion. It's not like there isn't a well established history of how, generally, religious groups act under these circumstances.

The ignorance of this statement is astounding.

I would've thought that an American, of all people, would be able to understand that everyone within a particular religious faith is not the same. They only need to look within their own country to realize that there is a significant range of ideology and outlook within the Christian faith. 

Why an American would think they are somehow exceptional in that regard... oh wait.  Right, Americans believe they are exceptional.

I want you to panic

https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2019/jan/25/i-want-you-to-panic-16-year-old-greta-thunberg-issues-climate-warning-at-davos-video

"Woke" is now almost exclusively used by those who seek to deride it, those who chafe at the activism from which it sprang. Opponents to the idea are seeking to render it toxic. They use it to stand in for change itself, for evolution, for an accurate assessment of history and society that makes them uncomfortable and deflates their hagiographic view of American history.