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The problems with the activist left

Started by Barrister, June 21, 2022, 11:30:34 AM

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Berkut

I left out the social part of that.

In regards to socil identity, I am old school MLK. I think we should strive to get to a place where someone's skin color is about as interesting and relevant to their standing in society and economics as their hair color. I think we are a LOOOONG way away from that, and the pernicious influence of human nature and our lizard brain desire to categorize and de-humanize others who don't fit into some idiotic notion of our tribe has created stark inequities that cannot be redressed without active adjustment to economic, political, and social structures. 

In general, our lizard brains kind of suck, and we have to accept and figure out how to ignore the parts that don't serve us well anymore, and most intolerance of others comes from our human nature.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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crazy canuck

I am not sure why anyone is surprised that within large organizations there are bad apples who do not treat everyone as they should.  I am also not surprised that left leaning organizations are not immune from this.
I want you to panic

https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2019/jan/25/i-want-you-to-panic-16-year-old-greta-thunberg-issues-climate-warning-at-davos-video

"Woke" is now almost exclusively used by those who seek to deride it, those who chafe at the activism from which it sprang. Opponents to the idea are seeking to render it toxic. They use it to stand in for change itself, for evolution, for an accurate assessment of history and society that makes them uncomfortable and deflates their hagiographic view of American history.

grumbler

I am not sure why anyone is surprised that the same posters, over and over again, comment in threads pretending bewilderment when they haven't even read the articles under discussion or comprehended what they are saying.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Valmy

Quote from: garbon on June 21, 2022, 11:52:53 AMGreenwald as been terrible for a long time. News 11 million years ago.

Greenwald left the Intercept years ago. He is just the founder.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

#19
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 22, 2022, 12:35:18 PMI am not sure why anyone is surprised that within large organizations there are bad apples who do not treat everyone as they should.  I am also not surprised that left leaning organizations are not immune from this.

Even  when it is increasingly systemic across virtually all of them? This kind of dysfunction is fucking the United States huge at a critical time when not only have an opportunity to effect real change but when the right wing is particularly dangerous and powerful. I am really fed up with it, it has been something that has been slowly moving forward for years, and right now it is getting in the way of some of my most cherished issues: reproductive rights, climate change, and energy. We have made so much progress and to see so many of our activist allied organizations ripping themselves apart by infighting is really tiresome. (Well ok the progress is in the climate change and energy parts, not nearly enough but way more than I thought realistic 15 years ago when I started this journey and incredible when you consider the strength of the groups arrayed against us. The reproductive rights situation is a shitshow.)

I think I commented on here a decade ago when I had more time for activist about how frustrated I was with feminist groups for reproductive rights issues and environmentalist groups for climate change and energy issues and how shitty they were for allies because they just fought amongst themselves and called each other out constantly and never did anything. We are all trying to take the next step and they are already fighting over the hundredth step and being really theoretical when concrete practical issues were what was needed. And it only seems to have gotten worse since then. 

If four years of Donald Trump was not enough for people to take shit seriously I don't know what it will take. It is just really frustrating and more so that so many of you just ignore the problem and pretend it isn't there. I mean not that I know what to do about it.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Razgovory

I didn't read the opening post, the news story that went with it, or the the following posts; can I still dismiss it? 
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Eddie Teach

Quote from: Razgovory on June 23, 2022, 09:16:04 PMI didn't read the opening post, the news story that went with it, or the the following posts; can I still dismiss it?

Will you read our responses?
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Razgovory

I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

crazy canuck

Quote from: Valmy on June 23, 2022, 08:54:57 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 22, 2022, 12:35:18 PMI am not sure why anyone is surprised that within large organizations there are bad apples who do not treat everyone as they should.  I am also not surprised that left leaning organizations are not immune from this.

Even  when it is increasingly systemic across virtually all of them? This kind of dysfunction is fucking the United States huge at a critical time when not only have an opportunity to effect real change but when the right wing is particularly dangerous and powerful. I am really fed up with it, it has been something that has been slowly moving forward for years, and right now it is getting in the way of some of my most cherished issues: reproductive rights, climate change, and energy. We have made so much progress and to see so many of our activist allied organizations ripping themselves apart by infighting is really tiresome. (Well ok the progress is in the climate change and energy parts, not nearly enough but way more than I thought realistic 15 years ago when I started this journey and incredible when you consider the strength of the groups arrayed against us. The reproductive rights situation is a shitshow.)

I think I commented on here a decade ago when I had more time for activist about how frustrated I was with feminist groups for reproductive rights issues and environmentalist groups for climate change and energy issues and how shitty they were for allies because they just fought amongst themselves and called each other out constantly and never did anything. We are all trying to take the next step and they are already fighting over the hundredth step and being really theoretical when concrete practical issues were what was needed. And it only seems to have gotten worse since then. 

If four years of Donald Trump was not enough for people to take shit seriously I don't know what it will take. It is just really frustrating and more so that so many of you just ignore the problem and pretend it isn't there. I mean not that I know what to do about it.

The first article BB posted was about the NDP mistreating its volunteers.  As you say, that happens across all parties.  And so I am not sure why anyone would be surprised it would also happen within the NDP.  Does being a left wing party somehow mean that everyone is virtuous and a good manager?  Probably not.

The second articles goes into a lot of detail about what happens in the US, and I defer to you about whether it is accurate or not. But the point is the same, in a large organization of largely volunteers, do you really expect that left leaning parties are going to be somehow immune to the fault BB had drawn our attention to in his post?

Frankly the problems with your country's politics run quite a lot deeper than the point BB raised.
I want you to panic

https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2019/jan/25/i-want-you-to-panic-16-year-old-greta-thunberg-issues-climate-warning-at-davos-video

"Woke" is now almost exclusively used by those who seek to deride it, those who chafe at the activism from which it sprang. Opponents to the idea are seeking to render it toxic. They use it to stand in for change itself, for evolution, for an accurate assessment of history and society that makes them uncomfortable and deflates their hagiographic view of American history.

viper37

Quote from: crazy canuck on June 24, 2022, 12:19:20 PMDoes being a left wing party somehow mean that everyone is virtuous and a good manager?  Probably not.
Good manager and left wing don't go together.  Otherwise, they would right wing, so we can exclude that. ;)

Virtuous, when they pretend to be the only virtuous ones, I would expect so...

In other news, the FTQ (an affiliated union) is caught up in yet another corruption scandal.  Some top executives stole money from the union to buy themselves some luxury cars & condos.
I don't do meditation.<br />I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Josquius

Always fascinating when right wingers can only view the left through a right wing frame.
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viper37

Quote from: Josquius on June 25, 2022, 02:40:44 AMAlways fascinating when right wingers can only view the left through a right wing frame.
Can you deny the left's tendancy to take the moral high ground?
I don't do meditation.<br />I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Josquius

Quote from: viper37 on June 25, 2022, 02:48:29 PM
Quote from: Josquius on June 25, 2022, 02:40:44 AMAlways fascinating when right wingers can only view the left through a right wing frame.
Can you deny the left's tendancy to take the moral high ground?

Eh?
I don't understand.
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Eddie Teach

Any large grouping of people will claim the moral high ground. It's human nature to think Us are better than Them.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Tonitrus

Both sides claim the moral high ground.  What is the right's position on abortion if not the textbook example of taking the moral high ground?  The states' rights legal argument against Roe is a transparent means to a further end.